A question I'd like to put out to the whole group is this: do you think 
Lawrence Summers' comments last week, true or not, did more good or harm? 
I can see arguments for both of these, I don't think it's a clear-cut issue.

How it might do good:  He's getting other researchers to look at this 
issue again, maybe in ways that could help people.  The debate has made me 
wish I were still an economist so I could go figure out a cool hypothesis 
and some cool data to test it with.

How it might do harm:  Scientists have a lot of sway.  If parents, 
teachers, and students take what he said as fact, it might contribute to 
female students being discouraged from entering mathematical fields.  I 
know I was discouraged in this way by certain teachers, and I'd hate to 
see Summers' well-intentioned words feed that sort of thing.

> On Thu, 27 Jan 2005, Daniel Reeves wrote:
> After reading a collection of articles about this (http://aldaily.com and
> grep for Summers) I ended up right where I started:  having no real
> opinion on whether or not Summers is a slimeball.
>
> I like this Borowitz report though :)  

I don't think he's a slimeball, at least not on purpose.  I think it 
was reasonable of him to ask the question of whether the preponderance of 
male scientists was due to innate differences.	Debating that stuff is how 
we figure it out, or how we figure out ways to figure it out.  I do think 
it was probably bumbling and irresponsible of him to ask it the way he 
did, though.  As scientists, we need to make it crystal clear when we are 
stating proven facts vs. personal opinions, and here I think he failed. 
He was speaking as the president of Harvard and as a renowned economist, 
and he stated what was essentially a conjecture and cited two studies 
that supposedly backed it up.  Upon further investigation, these studies 
really didn't say what he was interpreting them to say, and the authors 
even came forward to point this out.

There are many studies that show that men and women think differently and 
use their brains differently.  I don't think anyone debates that. 
However, this is not the same as saying that men are naturally better at 
X and women are naturally better at Y.	 We haven't gotten close to 
settling this issue yet, but I suspect that a statement like that would 
be a vast oversimplification of the complex differences between the 
sexes.	And even if we could say this, we don't have enough evidence to 
decide how much of these differences are innate vs. socialized.  I also 
wonder if this is one of those situations where the within-group 
variation is greater than between-group variation.

I think more research to address the differences would be useful.  Not so 
we can make statements like the above, but so we can understand how our 
minds work and how to teach people according to their strengths.  As 
someone (I think Annie) pointed out, it might be useful to separate 
people into classes not by gender but by learning style - ie visual vs. 
auditory, etc.	I would think more brain imaging studies would be useful 
to see which parts of the brain are active while men and women perform 
various tasks, and if there is a consistent pattern.  Studies of the 
influence of hormones on early brain development would have to be key, 
since this would get at the innateness vs. socialization question. 
And we could easily look at studies of the overall trend of women in the 
sciences.  If the percentage of scientists that are women continues to 
increase without appearing to converge, this could indicate that society 
is in a transition phase that isn't done yet; perhaps eventually the 
ratio will be closer to 1:1.  Do people have other ideas of interesting 
studies that could be done?  Or maybe know of studies like this that have 
already been done?

Karen

>
> --- \/   FROM Karen Conneely AT 05.01.27 10:00 (Today)   \/ ---
>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 02:10:23 -0500
>> From: Borowitzreport.com  
>> To: conneely Æ umich.edu
>> Subject: harvard president shocker
>>
>> January 26, 2005
>> HARVARD TO OFFER MAJOR IN HOME EC
>>
>>
>> Move Seen as Olive Branch to Women
>>
>> In an effort to "level the academic playing field," Harvard University
>> President Lawrence Summers announced today that the university would
>> introduce a home economics major designed specifically for its female
>> students.
>>
>> "Starting in the fall, Harvard will offer home economics for women who
>> find economics too tricky," said Mr. Summers, who called the move "long
>> overdue."
>>
>> Mr. Summers said that the new courses would help women at Harvard
>> improve their grade point averages, adding, "When it comes to getting
>> busy in the kitchen, women are second to none."
>>
>> The home ec major, which will consist of courses in cooking, sewing and
>> what Summers called "the allied domestic arts and sciences," is
>> considered a major departure for the curriculum of the storied academic
>> institution.
>>
>> Coming in the wake of Mr. Summers' recent controversial remarks about
>> purported intellectual differences between the sexes, the Harvard
>> president's decision to introduce a home economics major for women was
>> widely seen as an olive branch of sorts.
>>
>> But the move may have backfired, as an angry mob of female faculty
>> members protested outside his office today, demanding his immediate
>> ouster and burning Mr. Summers in effigy.
>>
>> In a meeting with the protesters, Mr. Summers promised that he would
>> recruit additional women to the Harvard faculty but refused to tell the
>> protesters how many: "I don't want to fill your heads with a lot of big
>> numbers you won't understand."
>>
>> Elsewhere, Attorney General nominee Alberto Gonzales continued to
>> disavow torture today, but told reporters, "This is harder than quitting
>> smoking."
>>
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> --
> http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/dreeves  - -	google://"Daniel Reeves"
>
> "Instead of studying for finals, what about just going to the
> Bahamas and catching some rays? Maybe you'll flunk, but you might
> have flunked anyway; that's my point." -- Jack Handey
>
>
>
>