X-Spam-Status: No -- Hits: -2.483 Required: 5 X-Spam-Summary: BAYES_00,MAILTO_TO_REMOVE Sender: -2.483 (spamval) -- NONE Return-Path: Received: from smtp.eecs.umich.edu (smtp.eecs.umich.edu [141.213.4.43]) by boston.eecs.umich.edu (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j0RKLahe031782 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2005 15:21:36 -0500 Received: from idoldancer.mr.itd.umich.edu (idoldancer.mr.itd.umich.edu [141.211.14.76]) by smtp.eecs.umich.edu (8.13.0/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j0RKLQRL019212 for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2005 15:21:29 -0500 Received: FROM struggle.mr.itd.umich.edu (struggle.mr.itd.umich.edu [141.211.14.79]) BY idoldancer.mr.itd.umich.edu ID 41F94D3F.29BCB.13210 ; 27 Jan 2005 15:21:19 -0500 Received: from 2004-0034.sph.umich.edu (host101-15.sph.umich.edu [141.211.15.101]) by struggle.mr.itd.umich.edu (smtp) with ESMTP id j0RKLHlx014409; Thu, 27 Jan 2005 15:21:17 -0500 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: X-X-Sender: conneely Æ mail.umich.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.48 on 141.213.4.43 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 15:21:03 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) To: Daniel Reeves cc: Sarah Rachelle Nuss-Warren , Alyssa Suzanne Pozniak , Michelle J Sternthal , Bethany Soule , improvetheworld Æ umich.edu, Jeanette Mumford , amnoone Æ umich.edu From: Karen Conneely Subject: Did Summers improve the world? Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 84 A question I'd like to put out to the whole group is this: do you think Lawrence Summers' comments last week, true or not, did more good or harm? I can see arguments for both of these, I don't think it's a clear-cut issue. How it might do good: He's getting other researchers to look at this issue again, maybe in ways that could help people. The debate has made me wish I were still an economist so I could go figure out a cool hypothesis and some cool data to test it with. How it might do harm: Scientists have a lot of sway. If parents, teachers, and students take what he said as fact, it might contribute to female students being discouraged from entering mathematical fields. I know I was discouraged in this way by certain teachers, and I'd hate to see Summers' well-intentioned words feed that sort of thing. > On Thu, 27 Jan 2005, Daniel Reeves wrote: > After reading a collection of articles about this (http://aldaily.com and > grep for Summers) I ended up right where I started: having no real > opinion on whether or not Summers is a slimeball. > > I like this Borowitz report though :) I don't think he's a slimeball, at least not on purpose. I think it was reasonable of him to ask the question of whether the preponderance of male scientists was due to innate differences. Debating that stuff is how we figure it out, or how we figure out ways to figure it out. I do think it was probably bumbling and irresponsible of him to ask it the way he did, though. As scientists, we need to make it crystal clear when we are stating proven facts vs. personal opinions, and here I think he failed. He was speaking as the president of Harvard and as a renowned economist, and he stated what was essentially a conjecture and cited two studies that supposedly backed it up. Upon further investigation, these studies really didn't say what he was interpreting them to say, and the authors even came forward to point this out. There are many studies that show that men and women think differently and use their brains differently. I don't think anyone debates that. However, this is not the same as saying that men are naturally better at X and women are naturally better at Y. We haven't gotten close to settling this issue yet, but I suspect that a statement like that would be a vast oversimplification of the complex differences between the sexes. And even if we could say this, we don't have enough evidence to decide how much of these differences are innate vs. socialized. I also wonder if this is one of those situations where the within-group variation is greater than between-group variation. I think more research to address the differences would be useful. Not so we can make statements like the above, but so we can understand how our minds work and how to teach people according to their strengths. As someone (I think Annie) pointed out, it might be useful to separate people into classes not by gender but by learning style - ie visual vs. auditory, etc. I would think more brain imaging studies would be useful to see which parts of the brain are active while men and women perform various tasks, and if there is a consistent pattern. Studies of the influence of hormones on early brain development would have to be key, since this would get at the innateness vs. socialization question. And we could easily look at studies of the overall trend of women in the sciences. If the percentage of scientists that are women continues to increase without appearing to converge, this could indicate that society is in a transition phase that isn't done yet; perhaps eventually the ratio will be closer to 1:1. Do people have other ideas of interesting studies that could be done? Or maybe know of studies like this that have already been done? Karen > > --- \/ FROM Karen Conneely AT 05.01.27 10:00 (Today) \/ --- > >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 02:10:23 -0500 >> From: Borowitzreport.com >> To: conneely Æ umich.edu >> Subject: harvard president shocker >> >> January 26, 2005 >> HARVARD TO OFFER MAJOR IN HOME EC >> >> >> Move Seen as Olive Branch to Women >> >> In an effort to "level the academic playing field," Harvard University >> President Lawrence Summers announced today that the university would >> introduce a home economics major designed specifically for its female >> students. >> >> "Starting in the fall, Harvard will offer home economics for women who >> find economics too tricky," said Mr. Summers, who called the move "long >> overdue." >> >> Mr. Summers said that the new courses would help women at Harvard >> improve their grade point averages, adding, "When it comes to getting >> busy in the kitchen, women are second to none." >> >> The home ec major, which will consist of courses in cooking, sewing and >> what Summers called "the allied domestic arts and sciences," is >> considered a major departure for the curriculum of the storied academic >> institution. >> >> Coming in the wake of Mr. Summers' recent controversial remarks about >> purported intellectual differences between the sexes, the Harvard >> president's decision to introduce a home economics major for women was >> widely seen as an olive branch of sorts. >> >> But the move may have backfired, as an angry mob of female faculty >> members protested outside his office today, demanding his immediate >> ouster and burning Mr. Summers in effigy. >> >> In a meeting with the protesters, Mr. Summers promised that he would >> recruit additional women to the Harvard faculty but refused to tell the >> protesters how many: "I don't want to fill your heads with a lot of big >> numbers you won't understand." >> >> Elsewhere, Attorney General nominee Alberto Gonzales continued to >> disavow torture today, but told reporters, "This is harder than quitting >> smoking." >> >> To unsubscribe to this e-mail list please paste the following URL: >> http://www.borowitzreport.com/contact.asp?email=conneely Æ umich.edu into >> your browser address bar or forward this message to >> "remove Æ borowitzreport.com". >> >> www.Borowitzreport.com >> Waste Someone's Time: Forward to a Friend: >> http://www.borowitzreport.com/email_form.asp?email=conneely Æ umich.edu&rec=1054 >> >> SUBSCRIBE TODAY! Free Email Updates, click the link below or paste it >> into your browser. http://www.borowitzreport.com/subscribe.asp >> >> *** >> BOROWITZ AT THE HBO COMEDY FESTIVAL IN ASPEN*** >> >> See Andy at this year's HBO Comedy Festival in Aspen. Scheduled so far: >> Thursday, February 10: 9:00 PM, The Tent >> Saturday, February 12: 1:00 PM, Wheeler Opera House >> For more details, go to www.hbocomedyfestival.com >> >> *** >> BRING THE BOROWITZ REPORT TO YOUR TOWN*** >> The Borowitz Report is now being syndicated to local newspapers by Creators Syndicate. Contact your local newspaper and tell them to start carrying the Borowitz Report today! > > -- > http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/dreeves - - google://"Daniel Reeves" > > "Instead of studying for finals, what about just going to the > Bahamas and catching some rays? Maybe you'll flunk, but you might > have flunked anyway; that's my point." -- Jack Handey > > > >