=A0

On May 23, = 2007, at 10:43 AM, Alyssa Pozniak wrote:

just = fyi - the below post originally appeared in a public health-related = listserv i'm on and is in response to the Nina Planck editorial.
=
=A0

and just to clarify for us non-vegans out here who = aren't familar w/ the specifics -- does a vegan diet for a newborn mean = no mother's breast milk?=A0 eliminating cow's milk (or other mammal's = milk) i understand, but to not feed an infant breast milk as nature = intended seems counter-intuitive to the "mother earth" stance that often = goes hand in hand w/ the vegan/vegetarian way of life (yes i understand = there are exceptions - i'm talking in general terms though).=A0 so i = just wanted clarification from vegans in the know=A0 (but i *don't* want = to start a debate on whether it's "good" vs. "bad"! :)
=
=A0

Posted by: "Jason Ketola" keto0011 Æ umn.edu

Mon May=A021,=A02007 = 12:48=A0pm (PST)

Nina Planck's op-ed "Death by Veganism" = ironically fails to list any
deaths or even instances of ill-health = resulting from well-planned vegan
diets.

To a vegan of eight = years myself, who's met hundreds of thriving vegan =
adults and children, Planck's claims of the inadequacy = of the vegan diet
ring patently untrue.

It's worth = interrogating Nina Planck's connection to the Weston Price =
Foundation, which has a financial interest in disparaging veganism = in
favor of "real milk" and the like. Not to mention her interest in =
selling a book on that very topic.

Jason
=
=A0

=A0

On = 5/23/07, Robert Felty <robfelty Æ gmail.com > wrote:
Kapoo sent a link to an article = which I think is worthy of
improvetheworld discussion. The text of = the article and a link to it
are at the bottom. Here is my 2 = cents:

Interesting article, but lacking in one very crucial = aspect --
references.

I have several books on vegan nutrition = which address issues of
Vitamin B12 deficiency and lists way in which = it is possible to get
the required nutrients. Certain types of Omega = 3 fatty acids are very
difficult to get as a vegan. However, one must = also keep in mind that
comparisons between vegetarians and = meat-eaters should be made
comparing average health of vegetarians to = average health of meat-
eaters, and many such studies show = vegetarians to be healthier
overall than omnivores.

I would = very highly recommend "Becoming Vegan"=A0=A0by Brenda Davis = and
Vesanto Melina. It has lots of useful nutrition facts, cites many =
studies in highly-regarded journals, and lists all = references.

In regards to giving infants soy milk instead of = formula, it is well
known that this is a bad idea, and most soymilks = have a warning on
the package that it should not be used as infant = formula. There are
soy-based formulas though. Here's a link to a = page listing a variety
of different formulas:
= http://www.babycenter.com/refcap/baby/formulafeed/1334669.html =

I also read a bit more about Crown Shakur on some other = blogs. There
were many atypical circumstances in the case. The = parents were a
black, vegan couple in Georgia, who gave birth at = home, and were
apparently also quite poor. I do think that they = probably made some
mistakes, but from my cursory knowledge of the = case, it does not seem
that they intentionally killed their baby. I = also think it is nearly
impossible to say "beyond the shadow of a = doubt" that had they fed
their child differently, it would have = lived. One of Clare's friend's
sisters recently lost a child. The = child was about 3-4 weeks old, and
was sleeping on the father's = chest. Apparently the father dozed off
for a bit, and when he awoke, = the baby was cold and blue. I can only
imagine how traumatic this = could be, and I cannot imagine having to
go through a trial after = such an event. These parents did have to go
through some sort of = social services thing, but they were not
punished by law.

The = young and old are both very vulnerable, and much more likely to
die = unexpectedly than those in the prime of their lives. Unless there
is = reason to believe that the parents of Crown Shakur really did not =
want children, I do not think that they should be viewed = as
murderers, but rather as parents who just lost a child, and they =
should be consoled instead of jailed. Some of this also boils down = to
philosophy about the penal system. What is the role of punishment = in
the penal system? Is it to deter people from committing = further
crimes? Is it to get revenge on the perpetrators? Is it to = protect
citizens from being harmed by the criminal? In this case, I = think it
is unlikely that the parents of Crown Shakur would harm the = child of
other parents. I also find it hard to believe that they = would
intentionally kill another child of their own. I think the = system is
failing here. These parents should be monitored by social = services,
and if they choose to have other children, should be guided = as to how
to raise a healthy child within the constraints of their = beliefs.

One final note: Consider an alternative situation: an = infant gets a
high fever, but is not taken to the hospital or given = drugs because
the parents are Christian Scientists, and do not = believe in modern
medicine. The baby dies. Have these parents = committed murder?

Rob

ARTICLE = TEXT
------------------------------------------
WHEN Crown Shakur = died of starvation, he was 6 weeks old and weighed
3.5 pounds. His = vegan parents, who fed him mainly soy milk and apple
juice, were = convicted in Atlanta recently of murder, involuntary
manslaughter and = cruelty.
Skip to next paragraph
Jacob Magraw-Mickelson

This = particular calamity =97 at least the third such conviction of
vegan = parents in four years =97 may be largely due to ignorance. But = it
should prompt frank discussion about nutrition.

I was once = a vegan. But well before I became pregnant, I concluded
that a vegan = pregnancy was irresponsible. You cannot create and
nourish a robust = baby merely on foods from plants.

Indigenous cuisines offer clues = about what humans, naturally
omnivorous, need to survive, reproduce = and grow: traditional
vegetarian diets, as in India, invariably = include dairy and eggs for
complete protein, essential fats and = vitamins. There are no vegan
societies for a simple reason: a vegan = diet is not adequate in the
long run.

Protein deficiency is = one danger of a vegan diet for babies.
Nutritionists used to speak = of proteins as "first class" (from meat,
fish, eggs and milk) and = "second class" (from plants), but today this
is considered = denigrating to vegetarians.

The fact remains, though, that = humans prefer animal proteins and fats
to cereals and tubers, = because they contain all the essential amino
acids needed for life in = the right ratio. This is not true of plant
proteins, which are = inferior in quantity and quality =97 even soy.

A vegan diet may = lack vitamin B12, found only in animal foods; usable
vitamins A and = D, found in meat, fish, eggs and butter; and necessary
minerals like = calcium and zinc. When babies are deprived of all these
nutrients, = they will suffer from retarded growth, rickets and nerve
= damage.

Responsible vegan parents know that breast milk is ideal. = It contains
many necessary components, including cholesterol (which = babies use to
make nerve cells) and countless immune and growth = factors. When
breastfeeding isn't possible, soy milk and fruit = juice, even in
seemingly sufficient quantities, are not safe = substitutes for a
quality infant formula.

Yet even a = breast-fed baby is at risk. Studies show that vegan breast
milk = lacks enough docosahexaenoic acid, or DHA, the omega-3 fat found
in = fatty fish. It is difficult to overstate the importance of DHA,
vital = as it is for eye and brain development.

A vegan diet is equally = dangerous for weaned babies and toddlers, who
need plenty of protein = and calcium. Too often, vegans turn to soy,
which actually inhibits = growth and reduces absorption of protein and
minerals. That's why = health officials in Britain, Canada and other
countries express = caution about soy for babies. (Not here, though =97
perhaps because = our farm policy is so soy-friendly.)

Historically, diet honored = tradition: we ate the foods that our
mothers, and their mothers, = ate. Now, your neighbor or sibling may be
a meat-eater or = vegetarian, may ferment his foods or eat them raw.
This fragmentation = of the American menu reflects admirable diversity
and tolerance, but = food is more important than fashion. Though it's
not politically = correct to say so, all diets are not created equal.

An adult who = was well-nourished in utero and in infancy may choose to
get by on a = vegan diet, but babies are built from protein, calcium,
cholesterol = and fish oil. Children fed only plants will not get the
precious = things they need to live and grow.

Nina Planck is the author of = "Real Food: What to Eat and Why."

On May 22, 2007, at 3:27 = PM, Christine Kapusky wrote:

> Interesting...
= >
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: jjk514 Æ gmail.com = < = jjk514 Æ gmail.com>
> Date: May 22, 2007 10:56 AM
> = Subject: NYTimes.com: Death by Veganism
> To: ckapoo Æ gmail.com
>
>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0[image: The New York Times] <http://www.nytimes.com/ >
> [image: = E-mail
> This]=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 *This page was sent to you by: * = jjk514 Æ gmail.com
>
> Message from = sender:
> fyi.
>
> * OPINION *=A0=A0 | May 21, 2007 =
> * Op-Ed Contributor:=A0=A0Death by Veganism
> < = http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/21/opinion/21planck.html?
> = ex=3D1180497600&en=3Df83902b3c8513583&ei=3D5070&emc=3Deta1>=
> *
> By NINA PLANCK
> You cannot create and nourish = a robust baby merely on foods from
> plants.
>
> = [image: Most E-mailed]
> 1. Op-Ed Contributor: Death by
> = Veganism< = http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/21/opinion/21planck.html?
> = ex=3D1180497600&en=3Df83902b3c8513583&ei=3D5070&emc=3Deta1>=
> 2. This Is Your Life (and How You Tell
> It)< = http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/22/health/psychology/22narr.html?
&g= t; ex=3D1180497600&en=3D12d9da8976db7071&ei=3D5070&emc=3Deta1&= gt;
> 3. Mysteries to Behold in the Dark Down Deep: Seadevils and = Species
> Unknown<http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/22/science/22deep.html?
> = ex=3D1180497600&en=3D1f342008210cb27f&ei=3D5070&emc=3Deta1>=
> 4. Books of The Times: Al Gore Speaks of a Nation in
> = Danger<http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/22/books/22kaku.html = ?
> = ex=3D1180497600&en=3Db05d19a086e3f485&ei=3D5070&emc=3Deta1>=
> 5. Executive on a Mission: Saving the
> Planet< = http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/22/science/earth/22ander.html = ?
> = ex=3D1180497600&en=3D64e3c95b9e4bc5cc&ei=3D5070&emc=3Deta1>=
>
> =BB=A0=A0Go to Complete List < = http://www.nytimes.com/gst/mostemailed.html ?
> = type=3D1>
>
>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Copyright = 2007
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>
>
>
> --
> "Life is what = happens to you when you're busy making other plans."
> = John
> = Lennon

Dave = Morris

cell: 734-476-8769

http://www-personal.umich.= edu/~thecat/