just fyi - the below post originally appeared in a public health-relat= ed listserv i'm on and is in response to the Nina Planck editorial.

and just to clarify for us non-vegans out here who aren't familar = w/ the specifics -- does a vegan diet for a newborn mean no mother's br= east milk? eliminating cow's milk (or other mammal's milk) i = understand, but to not feed an infant breast milk as nature intended seems = counter-intuitive to the "mother earth" stance that often goes ha= nd in hand w/ the vegan/vegetarian way of life (yes i understand there are = exceptions - i'm talking in general terms though). so i just want= ed clarification from vegans in the know (but i *don't* want to s= tart a debate on whether it's "good" vs. "bad"! :)

Posted by: "Jason Ketola" keto0011 Æ umn.edu

Mon May 21, 2007 12:48 pm (PST)

Nina Planck's op-ed "Death by Veganism" ironically fails= to list any
deaths or even instances of ill-health resulting from well= -planned vegan
diets.

To a vegan of eight years myself, who'= s met hundreds of thriving vegan=20
adults and children, Planck's claims of the inadequacy= of the vegan diet
ring patently untrue.

It's worth interrog= ating Nina Planck's connection to the Weston Price
Foundation, whic= h has a financial interest in disparaging veganism in=20
favor of "real milk" and the like. Not to mention her interes= t in
selling a book on that very topic.

Jason

On 5/23/07, = Robert Felty <robfelty Æ gmail.c= om > wrote:=20

Kapoo sent a link to an article = which I think is worthy of
improvetheworld discussion. The text of the a= rticle and a link to it=20
are at the bottom. Here is my 2 cents:

Interesting article, but = lacking in one very crucial aspect --
references.

I have several = books on vegan nutrition which address issues of
Vitamin B12 deficiency = and lists way in which it is possible to get=20
the required nutrients. Certain types of Omega 3 fatty acids are verydifficult to get as a vegan. However, one must also keep in mind that
= comparisons between vegetarians and meat-eaters should be made
comparing= average health of vegetarians to average health of meat-=20
eaters, and many such studies show vegetarians to be healthier
overa= ll than omnivores.

I would very highly recommend "Becoming Vega= n"  by Brenda Davis and
Vesanto Melina. It has lots of us= eful nutrition facts, cites many=20
studies in highly-regarded journals, and lists all references.

I= n regards to giving infants soy milk instead of formula, it is well
know= n that this is a bad idea, and most soymilks have a warning on
the packa= ge that it should not be used as infant formula. There are=20
soy-based formulas though. Here's a link to a page listing a variet= y
of different formulas:
http://www.babycenter.com/refcap/baby/formulafeed/1334669.html

= I also read a bit more about Crown Shakur on some other blogs. There
wer= e many atypical circumstances in the case. The parents were a
black, veg= an couple in Georgia, who gave birth at home, and were
apparently also quite poor. I do think that they probably made some mistakes, but from my cursory knowledge of the case, it does not seem
t= hat they intentionally killed their baby. I also think it is nearly
impossible to say "beyond the shadow of a doubt" that had they fe= d
their child differently, it would have lived. One of Clare's frie= nd's
sisters recently lost a child. The child was about 3-4 weeks ol= d, and
was sleeping on the father's chest. Apparently the father dozed off=
for a bit, and when he awoke, the baby was cold and blue. I can onlyimagine how traumatic this could be, and I cannot imagine having to
go through a trial after such an event. These parents did have to go
thr= ough some sort of social services thing, but they were not
punished by = law.

The young and old are both very vulnerable, and much more likel= y to
die unexpectedly than those in the prime of their lives. Unless thereis reason to believe that the parents of Crown Shakur really did not
= want children, I do not think that they should be viewed as
murderers, b= ut rather as parents who just lost a child, and they
should be consoled instead of jailed. Some of this also boils down tophilosophy about the penal system. What is the role of punishment in
= the penal system? Is it to deter people from committing further
crimes? = Is it to get revenge on the perpetrators? Is it to protect
citizens from being harmed by the criminal? In this case, I think itis unlikely that the parents of Crown Shakur would harm the child of
o= ther parents. I also find it hard to believe that they would
intentional= ly kill another child of their own. I think the system is
failing here. These parents should be monitored by social services,
= and if they choose to have other children, should be guided as to how
t= o raise a healthy child within the constraints of their beliefs.

One final note: Consider an alternative situation: an infant gets a
high= fever, but is not taken to the hospital or given drugs because
the pare= nts are Christian Scientists, and do not believe in modern
medicine. Th= e baby dies. Have these parents committed murder?

Rob

ARTICLE TEXT
----------------------------------------= --
WHEN Crown Shakur died of starvation, he was 6 weeks old and weighed<= br>3.5 pounds. His vegan parents, who fed him mainly soy milk and apple
juice, were convicted in Atlanta recently of murder, involuntary
man= slaughter and cruelty.
Skip to next paragraph
Jacob Magraw-Mickelson<= br>
This particular calamity =97 at least the third such conviction of
vegan parents in four years =97 may be largely due to ignorance. But it=
should prompt frank discussion about nutrition.

I was once a veg= an. But well before I became pregnant, I concluded
that a vegan pregnan= cy was irresponsible. You cannot create and
nourish a robust baby merely on foods from plants.

Indigenous cu= isines offer clues about what humans, naturally
omnivorous, need to surv= ive, reproduce and grow: traditional
vegetarian diets, as in India, inv= ariably include dairy and eggs for
complete protein, essential fats and vitamins. There are no vegan
so= cieties for a simple reason: a vegan diet is not adequate in the
long ru= n.

Protein deficiency is one danger of a vegan diet for babies.
Nutritionists used to speak of proteins as "first class" (fro= m meat,
fish, eggs and milk) and "second class" (from plants),= but today this
is considered denigrating to vegetarians.

The fa= ct remains, though, that humans prefer animal proteins and fats
to cereals and tubers, because they contain all the essential amino
= acids needed for life in the right ratio. This is not true of plant
prot= eins, which are inferior in quantity and quality =97 even soy.

A veg= an diet may lack vitamin B12, found only in animal foods; usable
vitamins A and D, found in meat, fish, eggs and butter; and necessaryminerals like calcium and zinc. When babies are deprived of all these nutrients, they will suffer from retarded growth, rickets and nerve
damage.

Responsible vegan parents know that breast milk is ideal. It= contains
many necessary components, including cholesterol (which babies= use to
make nerve cells) and countless immune and growth factors. When
breastfeeding isn't possible, soy milk and fruit juice, even in
= seemingly sufficient quantities, are not safe substitutes for a
quality = infant formula.

Yet even a breast-fed baby is at risk. Studies show= that vegan breast
milk lacks enough docosahexaenoic acid, or DHA, the omega-3 fat foundin fatty fish. It is difficult to overstate the importance of DHA,
vit= al as it is for eye and brain development.

A vegan diet is equally d= angerous for weaned babies and toddlers, who
need plenty of protein and calcium. Too often, vegans turn to soy,
w= hich actually inhibits growth and reduces absorption of protein and
min= erals. That's why health officials in Britain, Canada and other
countries express caution about soy for babies. (Not here, though =97
pe= rhaps because our farm policy is so soy-friendly.)

Historically, die= t honored tradition: we ate the foods that our
mothers, and their mothe= rs, ate. Now, your neighbor or sibling may be
a meat-eater or vegetarian, may ferment his foods or eat them raw.
T= his fragmentation of the American menu reflects admirable diversity
and = tolerance, but food is more important than fashion. Though it's
not politically correct to say so, all diets are not created equal.

= An adult who was well-nourished in utero and in infancy may choose to
ge= t by on a vegan diet, but babies are built from protein, calcium,
choles= terol and fish oil. Children fed only plants will not get the
precious things they need to live and grow.

Nina Planck is the a= uthor of "Real Food: What to Eat and Why."

On May 22, = 2007, at 3:27 PM, Christine Kapusky wrote:

> Interesting...
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: jjk514 Æ gmail.com < jjk514 Æ gmail.com>
> Date: May 22, 2007 10:56 AM
> Subje= ct: NYTimes.com: Death by Veganism
> To: ckapoo Æ gmail.com
>
>      &nb= sp; [image: The New York Times] <http://www.nytimes.com/ >
> [image: E-mail
> This]       *This page was sent to y= ou by: * jjk514 Æ gmail.com
>=
> Message from sender:
> fyi.
>
> * OPINION *   | May 21, 2007
> * Op-Ed Co= ntributor:  Death by Veganism
> < http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/21/opinion/21planck.html?
> ex=3D1= 180497600&en=3Df83902b3c8513583&ei=3D5070&emc=3Deta1>
&g= t; *
> By NINA PLANCK
> You cannot create and nourish a robust = baby merely on foods from
> plants.
>
> [image: Most E-mailed]
> 1. Op-Ed Co= ntributor: Death by
> Veganism< http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/21/opinion/21planck.html?
> ex=3D1= 180497600&en=3Df83902b3c8513583&ei=3D5070&emc=3Deta1>
>= ; 2. This Is Your Life (and How You Tell
> It)< http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/22/health/psychology/22narr.html?
>= ; ex=3D1180497600&en=3D12d9da8976db7071&ei=3D5070&emc=3Deta1>= ;
> 3. Mysteries to Behold in the Dark Down Deep: Seadevils and Spec= ies
> Unknown<http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/22/science/22deep.html?
> e= x=3D1180497600&en=3D1f342008210cb27f&ei=3D5070&emc=3Deta1>
> 4. Books of The Times: Al Gore Speaks of a Nation in
> Dange= r<http:/= /www.nytimes.com/2007/05/22/books/22kaku.html=20 ?
> ex=3D1180497600&en=3Db05d19a086e3f485&ei=3D5070&e= mc=3Deta1>
> 5. Executive on a Mission: Saving the
> Planet&= lt; http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/22/science/earth/22ander.html ?
> = ex=3D1180497600&en=3D64e3c95b9e4bc5cc&ei=3D5070&emc=3Deta1><= br>>
> =BB  Go to Complete List < http://www.nytimes.com/gst/mostemailed.html ?
> type=3D1>
&= gt;
>         Copyright 2007<= br>> < http://www.nytimes.com/ref/membercenter/help/copyright.html> The
= > New York
> Times Company <h= ttp://www.nytco.com/ > | Privacy
> Policy<http://www.nytimes.com/ref/membercenter/hel= p/privacy.html=20 >
>
>
>
> --
> "Life is what happ= ens to you when you're busy making other plans."
> John
&= gt; Lennon

------=_Part_151099_18208384.1179931429632--