X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,INVALID_DATE  	autolearn=no version=3.2.0-r431796
Sender: -0.4 (spamval) -- NONE
Return-Path: <MAILER-DAEMON &AElig eecs.umich.edu>
Received: from newman.eecs.umich.edu (newman.eecs.umich.edu [141.213.4.11]) 	by boston.eecs.umich.edu (8.12.10/8.13.0) with ESMTP id l0QLlaTK016821 	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) 	for <dreeves &AElig boston.eecs.umich.edu>; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 16:47:36 -0500
Received: from jeffrey.mr.itd.umich.edu (mx.umich.edu [141.211.14.132]) 	by newman.eecs.umich.edu (8.13.8/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l0QLlXE8012369 	for <dreeves &AElig eecs.umich.edu>; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 16:47:33 -0500
Message-ID: <45BA73FA.CB8A0.22965 &AElig jeffrey.mr.itd.umich.edu>
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.0-r431796 (2006-08-16) on  	newman.eecs.umich.edu
X-Virus-Scan: : UVSCAN at UoM/EECS
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 16:34:50
To: <improvetheworld-errors &AElig umich.edu>
From: <mailer-daemon &AElig jeffrey.mr.itd.umich.edu>
Subject: undeliverable mail

Message delivery failed for one or more recipients, check specific errors below

An error occurred during delivery to host webtv.net.

address james-kalkman &AElig webtv.net
Bad SMTP RCPT TO reply
556 <mx.umich.edu[141.211.14.132]>: Client host rejected: Resource unavailable - listed by external RBL http://info.webtv.net/spam/index.html#141.211.14.132

Bounced message:

Received: FROM nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.185])
	BY jeffrey.mr.itd.umich.edu ID 45BA7074.D3961.22965 ; 
	26 Jan 2007 16:19:49 -0500
Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id h2so1266188nfe
        for <improvetheworld &AElig umich.edu>; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 13:19:48 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
        d=gmail.com; s=beta;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
        b=qEyKToC8Q0dEpEXAlq+827cxkLwtOriqnE33fBE10445gIM3TH9dzA2KfMaYtD7tg/uGLtWMdyiygl0OFvul7H4/gj0zRnROYIi4lkDKHBGUo3nwPMXZYYc3sUt416sYUIvTvjl20h6t2sU6BaIrfCVEcSzfEekgnAL+2d4I3Ow=
Received: by 10.49.41.3 with SMTP id t3mr1991191nfj.1169846387500;
        Fri, 26 Jan 2007 13:19:47 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.49.6.19 with HTTP; Fri, 26 Jan 2007 13:19:47 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <2ff07e720701261319x3f5fd62ep66957dc79a17774e &AElig mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 16:19:47 -0500
From: "Clare Dibble" <clare.dibble &AElig gmail.com>
To: improvetheworld &AElig umich.edu
Subject: Re: more reasons to be vegetarian
In-Reply-To: <F46790C7-0ABD-40A9-83CA-55019BBCC7BF &AElig eecs.umich.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
References: <5FBB2176-92EF-4F1E-8ACE-38A7A187D671 &AElig umich.edu>
	 <Pine.LNX.4.64.0701241524480.9931 &AElig columbus.eecs.umich.edu>
	 <F46790C7-0ABD-40A9-83CA-55019BBCC7BF &AElig eecs.umich.edu>

Being married to Rob, I have become much more likely to seek out and
purchase free range this or organic that with a good smattering of
locally grown food, especially produce.  I find that typically the
environmentally friendly options available are typically 1.5 to 3
times as expensive as the "traditional" versions, though good finds
are occasionally even cheaper than the factory farmed alternatives.  I
would propose if people wanted to participate in such a scheme, they
use numbers something like this.  And I'm not sure I would limit it to
animal consumption...

Every time I have been or tried to be vegetarian or vegan, I have
gained weight.  I'm just curious if anyone else has had this
experience.  I know Rob lost weight when he shifted his diet away from
meat.  Any other changes people notice when eating fewer animals or
animal products?

On 1/25/07, Joshua J Estelle <jestelle &AElig eecs.umich.edu> wrote:
> > The text of this article is about how mass farming of meat is bad
> > for the environment, not that eating meat is bad for the
> > environment. If eating meat alone was bad for the environment, then
> > eradicating all carnivores would solve our global warming problem, no?
>
> It is true that locally raised meet likely has negligible negative
> impact and that the real problem is mass farming of meat, but I think
> even very environmentally conscious meat eaters are unlikely to
> always eat "good" meat.
>
> > To change the topic slightly, your article reminded me of a very
> > interesting essay by Jared Diamond (the "Guns, Germs, and Steel"
> > guy) claiming that farming was the worst mistake humanity ever made:
>
> While farming may not also be perfect, it is by far the lesser evil
> to eating meat.  Consider we have to feed 10 people for 1 year.  Then
> think about how much land and resources you would need to feed them a
> meat eating diet.  Each animal they eat will need a tremendous amount
> of resources to raise that animal to be eaten.  Then consider if
> those 10 people were vegetarians.  The amount of land and resources
> needed to feed them would be drastically smaller.
>
> It's just more efficient to be vegetarian.
>
> I think I just discovered my short answer to when people ask me why
> I'm vegetarian, "It's just more efficient."
>
> Best,
> Josh
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Wed, 24 Jan 2007, Robert Felty wrote:
> >
> >> Really great article about how eating meat is bad for the
> >> environment. Thanks to Clare for pointing it out to me.
> >> You can read it at:
> >> http://www.commondreams.org/views07/0120-20.htm
> >>
>
>