X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.0-r431796 Sender: -2.6 (spamval) -- NONE Return-Path: Received: from newman.eecs.umich.edu (newman.eecs.umich.edu [141.213.4.11]) by boston.eecs.umich.edu (8.12.10/8.13.0) with ESMTP id l0ONdRTK030271 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 18:39:27 -0500 Received: from dave.mr.itd.umich.edu (mx.umich.edu [141.211.14.131]) by newman.eecs.umich.edu (8.13.8/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l0ONdLPp020465; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 18:39:21 -0500 Received: FROM newman.eecs.umich.edu (newman.eecs.umich.edu [141.213.4.11]) BY dave.mr.itd.umich.edu ID 45B7EE26.9BEB6.25096 ; 24 Jan 2007 18:39:18 -0500 Received: from boston.eecs.umich.edu (boston.eecs.umich.edu [141.213.4.61]) by newman.eecs.umich.edu (8.13.8/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l0ONdFcL020425 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 24 Jan 2007 18:39:15 -0500 Received: from boston.eecs.umich.edu (localhost.eecs.umich.edu [127.0.0.1]) by boston.eecs.umich.edu (8.12.10/8.13.0) with ESMTP id l0ONdETK030257 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 24 Jan 2007 18:39:14 -0500 Received: from localhost (dreeves Æ localhost) by boston.eecs.umich.edu (8.12.10/8.12.9/Submit) with ESMTP id l0ONdEw9030254; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 18:39:14 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: boston.eecs.umich.edu: dreeves owned process doing -bs X-X-Sender: dreeves Æ boston.eecs.umich.edu In-Reply-To: <5ed707a10701241505u34711160x67144c2e8f573025 Æ mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: References: <5FBB2176-92EF-4F1E-8ACE-38A7A187D671 Æ umich.edu> <5ed707a10701241505u34711160x67144c2e8f573025 Æ mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.0-r431796 (2006-08-16) on newman.eecs.umich.edu X-Virus-Scan: : UVSCAN at UoM/EECS X-Virus-Scan: : UVSCAN at UoM/EECS Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 18:39:14 -0500 (EST) To: bethany soule cc: Nathan Binkert , Nate Clark , Robert Felty , improvetheworld Æ umich.edu From: Daniel Reeves Subject: Re: more reasons to be vegetarian > not only do farmers not pay their own environmental costs, the whole > industry is heavily subsidized by the government. I wish I understood > that system better. I see this as an instance of a more general problem, namely corporate welfare, and it's sick sick sick. As for farmers passing on the cost to consumers, I agree, that's exactly the point. Like Bethany and others, including the article Rob sent, are saying, it's ultimately our choices as consumers that matter. (Except when our misguided government -- on both sides of the aisle -- literally pays (forces us to pay) factory farms and other companies to produce stuff we don't want!) I have a proposal: let's estimate the long term environmental cost of eating a hamburger (ideas on how solicited -- don't say it's impossible, we can at least put an upper bound on it) and pledge to set aside that much money for an environmental charity per hamburger (etc) we eat. Who's in? -- http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/dreeves - - search://"Daniel Reeves" "Politicians are like diapers; both should be changed regularly, and for the same reason."