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i notice that they have gender in the MCRI too. this is interesting to me
for several reasons.
i am not socio-economically challenged in any way. no, my parents are not
both plastics surgeons, but i would say i grew up upper middle class. if i
had wanted too, i probably could have taken kaplan classes for the SATs, my
high school had so many AP courses that i was taking all AP classes for
junior and senior years and my parents could afford to have me pay the fees
to take all the AP tests at the end of the year. advantage Lisa.
so, i don't really think i should get special treatment going to college,
because women go to college as much as (more than, now) men.
but when it comes to things like grad school, i feel my gender quite
significantly sometimes, and the occasional loneliness of being unique. i
honestly don't think i'm more qualified than everyone who didn't get in to
Michigan. maybe i am, but it's one of the oft-quoted characteristics
ascribed to women in engineering - an occasional unnecessary lack in
confidence. i've told people before though, i'm pretty sure if i didn't
have my special woman scholarship funding me the first 4 years here, i'd be
gone by now. not that i'm incapable of getting a phd. i know now it's well
within my reach. but i'm pretty sure i would have quit without that
preferential treatment.
i think how i feel can be extended to other underrepresented peoples at the
undergraduate level. all i'm saying is, it doesn't just have to do with
money/socio-economics. it has to do with identity too.
so, i agree with Nate that his friend shouldnt' have gotten to come here for
free. but i don't think color-blindness (difference-blindness?) is the
answer, but rather color-awareness. he probably should have gotten a little
advantage in getting in, if only because i've seen probably....2 hispanic
people as students in this town since getting here. there's no presence,
and that sucks. i only know one hispanic grad student too, and they were
given special treatment too, because...well, it's a good thing, in the end.
if anyone should be mad at affirmative action, it's asian people. after it
was abolished in california, the presence of asian people in the UC system
jumped by a very significant margin; the advantages of affirmative action
were at their expense. but, if you go to visit a campus and see asian after
asian after asian....after asian after asian after asian, you realize the a
completel monochrome campus is pretty messed up - you're just not sensitive
to this thought when the monochrome color is white.
anyway....so, i believe i'm going to vote no on the MCRI. blindness is not
the way to go. if only because i've been helped by it - not in the sense
that i attained something i didn't deserve/wasn't qualified for - but it has
helped me not get scared away by the fact that i am pretty alone. and the
real crime would have been to deprive everyone here in the CSE building of
my magnificent presence. :)
i'm anxious to hear what sir james thinks. te toca a ti.
lisa
On 10/11/06, Bill Rand wrote:
>
> I used to be a Libertarian, the long and the short of it is that I
> decided that economic power can be just as harmful as political power.
> Now I adopt the view that Political Power should be minimal but is rightly
> justified when used to balance out the harmful effects of Economic Power.
> Thus I feel that in cases where there is historical wrongs that have
> disturbed the balance of economic power in the world it is okay to
> rectify that imbalance with political power. I would completely
> support this initiative in a world where all "races" (I hate using
> that word so unscientific) had started from a level playing field,
> but since that is blatantly not the way it is, I have a hard time doing
> away with all affirmative action. Of course I no longer live in
> Michigan, so I don't get a say one way or another. On a completely
> different subject, for those who do live in Michigan btw the following is
> great news:
>
>
>
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061011/NEWS06/610110...
NEWS
>
> -Bill
>
>
> On Wed, 11 Oct 2006, Daniel Reeves wrote:
>
> > Ooh, great question. My work on Yootles is turning me into a
> libertarian
> > and for the sake of consistency, if nothing else, I think I'm going to
> go
> > with Yes on MCRI. (I suppose a hardcore libertarian would say No -- no
> > legislation concerning race at all. But since I think
> anti-discrimination
> > laws are important I'd prefer the simplest, fairest, most consistent
> form
> > of such laws possible, ie, "no racial discrimination for any reason
> > ever".)
> >
> > But I'm torn for the same reasons you are.
> >
> > Straw poll here:
> > http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/dreeves/improvetheworld/
> > (Put only your name there; for discussion use email.)
> >
> > --- \/ FROM Nate Clark AT 06.10.10 21:24 (Yesterday) \/ ---
> >
> > >
> > > Those of you in Michigan, what do you think about the Michigan Civil
> Rights
> > > Initiative, to be voted on in 4 weeks?
> > >
> > > The ballot language says it will "Ban public institutions from using
> > > affirmative action programs that give preferential treatment to groups
> or
> > > individuals based on their race, gender, color, ethnicity or national
> origin
> > > for public employment, education or contracting purposes."
> > >
> > > In principal, I agree with it, that the color of someone's skin should
> not
> > > give anyone special treatment. I strongly believe that people from
> worse
> > > socio-economic situations SHOULD get preferential treatment, though,
> and I
> > > recognize that they are, more often than not, non-caucasian.
> > >
> > > Is it conscionable to remove what I believe to be unjust forms of
> affirmative
> > > action, without immediately having another form in place?
> > >
> > > I keep thinking about a friend of mine from Argentina. Both of his
> parents
> > > are plastic surgeons who make more money than I will ever see. He got
> to go
> > > to UMich for free because he's hispanic. This is wrong, and the MCRI
> would
> > > end this type of thing.
> > >
> > > But without other forms of affirmative action, it seems like the MCRI
> would
> > > do more harm than good.
> > >
> > > ~Nate
> > >
> >
> > --
> > http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/dreeves - - search://"Daniel Reeves"
> >
> >
>
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i notice that they have gender in the MCRI too. this is interesting to me for
several reasons.
i am not socio-economically challenged in any way. no, my parents
are not both plastics surgeons, but i would say i grew up upper middle
class. if i had wanted too, i probably could have taken kaplan
classes for the SATs, my high school had so many AP courses that i was
taking all AP classes for junior and senior years and my parents could
afford to have me pay the fees to take all the AP tests at the end of
the year. advantage Lisa.
so, i don't really think i should get special treatment going to
college, because women go to college as much as (more than, now) men.
but when it comes to things like grad school, i feel my gender quite
significantly sometimes, and the occasional loneliness of being
unique. i honestly don't think i'm more qualified than everyone
who didn't get in to Michigan. maybe i am, but it's one of the
oft-quoted characteristics ascribed to women in engineering - an
occasional unnecessary lack in confidence. i've told people
before though, i'm pretty sure if i didn't have my special woman
scholarship funding me the first 4 years here, i'd be gone by
now. not that i'm incapable of getting a phd. i know now
it's well within my reach. but i'm pretty sure i would have quit
without that preferential treatment.
i think how i feel can be extended to other underrepresented peoples at
the undergraduate level. all i'm saying is, it doesn't just have
to do with money/socio-economics. it has to do with identity too.
so, i agree with Nate that his friend shouldnt' have gotten to come
here for free. but i don't think color-blindness
(difference-blindness?) is the answer, but rather
color-awareness. he probably should have gotten a little
advantage in getting in, if only because i've seen probably....2
hispanic people as students in this town since getting here.
there's no presence, and that sucks. i only know one hispanic
grad student too, and they were given special treatment too,
because...well, it's a good thing, in the end.
if anyone should be mad at affirmative action, it's asian people.
after it was abolished in california, the presence of asian people in
the UC system jumped by a very significant margin; the advantages of
affirmative action were at their expense. but, if you go to visit
a campus and see asian after asian after asian....after asian after
asian after asian, you realize the a completel monochrome campus is
pretty messed up - you're just not sensitive to this thought when the
monochrome color is white.
anyway....so, i believe i'm going to vote no on the MCRI.
blindness is not the way to go. if only because i've been helped
by it - not in the sense that i attained something i didn't
deserve/wasn't qualified for - but it has helped me not get scared away
by the fact that i am pretty alone. and the real crime would have
been to deprive everyone here in the CSE building of my magnificent
presence. :)
i'm anxious to hear what sir james thinks. te toca a ti.
lisa
On 10/11/06, Bill Rand < wrand Æ northwestern.edu > wrote:
I used to be a Libertarian, the long and the short of it is that I
decided that economic power can be just as harmful as political power. Now I
adopt the view that Political Power should be minimal but is rightly
justified when used to balance out the harmful effects of Economic Power. Thus
I feel that in cases where there is historical wrongs that have disturbed the
balance of economic power in the world it is okay to
rectify that imbalance with political power. I would completely support this
initiative in a world where all "races" (I hate using that word so
unscientific) had started from a level playing field, but since that is
blatantly not the way it is, I have a hard time doing
away with all affirmative action. Of course I no longer live in Michigan, so
I don't get a say one way or another. On a completely different subject, for
those who do live in Michigan btw the following is
great news:
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061011/NEWS06/610110...
NEWS -Bill
On Wed, 11 Oct 2006, Daniel Reeves wrote: > Ooh, great question. My work
on Yootles is turning me into a libertarian > and for the sake of
consistency, if nothing else, I think I'm going to go > with Yes on MCRI.
(I suppose a hardcore libertarian would say No -- no
> legislation concerning race at all. But since I think
anti-discrimination > laws are important I'd prefer the simplest, fairest,
most consistent form > of such laws possible, ie, "no racial discrimination
for any reason
> ever".) > > But I'm torn for the same reasons you are. > >
Straw poll here: >
http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/dreeves/improvetheworld/
> (Put only your name there; for discussion use email.) > > ---
\/ FROM Nate Clark AT 06.10.10 21:24 (Yesterday) \/ --- > > > >
> Those of you in Michigan, what do you think about the Michigan Civil
Rights
> > Initiative, to be voted on in 4 weeks? > > > > The
ballot language says it will "Ban public institutions from using > >
affirmative action programs that give preferential treatment to groups or
> > individuals based on their race, gender, color, ethnicity or
national origin > > for public employment, education or contracting
purposes." > > > > In principal, I agree with it, that the color of
someone's skin should not
> > give anyone special treatment. I strongly believe that people from
worse > > socio-economic situations SHOULD get preferential treatment,
though, and I > > recognize that they are, more often than not,
non-caucasian.
> > > > Is it conscionable to remove what I believe to be unjust
forms of affirmative > > action, without immediately having another form
in place? > > > > I keep thinking about a friend of mine from
Argentina. Both of his parents
> > are plastic surgeons who make more money than I will ever see. He
got to go > > to UMich for free because he's hispanic. This is wrong, and
the MCRI would > > end this type of thing. > >
> > But without other forms of affirmative action, it seems like the
MCRI would > > do more harm than good. > > > > ~Nate >
> > > -- >
http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/dreeves - - search://"Daniel Reeves" >
>
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