X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,HTML_00_10, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.2.0-r372567 Sender: -1.8 (spamval) -- NONE Return-Path: Received: from newman.eecs.umich.edu (newman.eecs.umich.edu [141.213.4.11]) by boston.eecs.umich.edu (8.12.10/8.13.0) with ESMTP id k7EHapnw002678 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 14 Aug 2006 13:36:51 -0400 Received: from jeffrey.mr.itd.umich.edu (jeffrey.mr.itd.umich.edu [141.211.14.71]) by newman.eecs.umich.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k7EHamkZ001814; Mon, 14 Aug 2006 13:36:48 -0400 Received: FROM nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.188]) BY jeffrey.mr.itd.umich.edu ID 44E0B49E.F1BD1.6077 ; 14 Aug 2006 13:36:31 -0400 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id o25so21620nfa for ; Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:36:30 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=ru2Xj76YIV06mRI0bHuEZxpWpQAI6fMLH9kH+BfMD4+hpHnqgnKL9KPNsX73cLCjXdogxq+exuI3nk/dRlbYKrzj10Gwb+yMHPkk3unm5BuxBTdvYdYAAofkL2kmowBvEqCcTNDWEOPunMhknRUOEDXnklD4a83+oDjSq9lpCcw= Received: by 10.82.126.19 with SMTP id y19mr73359buc; Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:36:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.82.106.11 with HTTP; Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:36:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <2ff07e720608141036r3fe1af31pb178e5c0ec5764aa Æ mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <20060814165517.45149.qmail Æ web38303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2474_21865075.1155576990070" References: <20060814165517.45149.qmail Æ web38303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.0-r372567 (2006-01-26) on newman.eecs.umich.edu X-Virus-Scan: : UVSCAN at UoM/EECS Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 13:36:30 -0400 To: improvetheworld Æ umich.edu From: "Clare Dibble" Subject: Re: stupid feel-good "no liquids" rule Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 687 ------=_Part_2474_21865075.1155576990070 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I think it is sort of interesting that the security measures were stepped up in light of a foiled plot attempt... a sign that current measures were _effective_. Additionally, while I think some level of security is appropriate to stop stupid terrorists (which probably outnumber smart terrorists), it is also appropriate to question what the right level of trade-off between travel hassle and safety is. Whether or not you see the TSA procedures as an actual civil liberty issue has to do with whether or not flying seems mandatory to your life. It is a choice to get on a plane, though many jobs require it. My guess from what I know of Danny and Laurie and from their positions is that Danny flies more often than Laurie and not always by his immediate choice. Where Laurie can avoid the draconian security measures except on "special occasions" for things she wants to do, Danny is frequently subjected to them for things he "has" to do. Imagine that we had to go through TSA screening every day to get into work. Imagine that TSA decided it would be safer to sedate all passengers and you could only fly by prescription (a doctor sends you with your "flying pills", which you are required to take at boarding). Imagine airlines provided special "flight outfits" you could order like the classic hospital gown and everything else had to be checked. All these things would reduce "terror", but at what cost? Aren't we on average a sedated, authority deferring enough society? I like the behavioral profiling idea. Instead of general advice to report suspicious behavior, what if they trained every person who flies to spot the top 5 most terrorist-like behaviors and updated the list every 6 months? Why not take the fight against terror into our own hands instead of leaving it all to "authority"? Making us more like sheep only makes us more susceptible to "terror". Clare ------=_Part_2474_21865075.1155576990070 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I think it is sort of interesting that the security measures were stepped up in light of a foiled plot attempt... a sign that current measures were _effective_. 

Additionally, while I think some level of security is appropriate to stop stupid terrorists (which probably outnumber smart terrorists), it is also appropriate to question what the right level of trade-off between travel hassle and safety is.  Whether or not you see the TSA procedures as an actual civil liberty issue has to do with whether or not flying seems mandatory to your life.  It is a choice to get on a plane, though many jobs require it. 

My guess from what I know of Danny and Laurie and from their positions is that Danny flies more often than Laurie and not always by his immediate choice.  Where Laurie can avoid the draconian security measures except on "special occasions" for things she wants to do, Danny is frequently subjected to them for things he "has" to do.  Imagine that we had to go through TSA screening every day to get into work. Imagine that TSA decided it would be safer to sedate all passengers and you could only fly by prescription (a doctor sends you with your "flying pills", which you are required to take at boarding).  Imagine airlines provided special "flight outfits" you could order like the classic hospital gown and everything else had to be checked.  All these things would reduce "terror", but at what cost? 

Aren't we on average a sedated, authority deferring enough society? 

I like the behavioral profiling idea.  Instead of general advice to report suspicious behavior, what if they trained every person who flies to spot the top 5 most terrorist-like behaviors and updated the list every 6 months?  Why not take the fight against terror into our own hands instead of leaving it all to "authority"?  Making us more like sheep only makes us more susceptible to "terror".

Clare

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