X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,SPF_HELO_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.2.0-r372567 Sender: -2.6 (spamval) -- NONE Return-Path: Received: from newman.eecs.umich.edu (newman.eecs.umich.edu [141.213.4.11]) by boston.eecs.umich.edu (8.12.10/8.13.0) with ESMTP id k6E60e6V013085 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 02:00:41 -0400 Received: from dave.mr.itd.umich.edu (dave.mr.itd.umich.edu [141.211.14.70]) by newman.eecs.umich.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k6E60dem018393; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 02:00:39 -0400 Received: FROM newman.eecs.umich.edu (newman.eecs.umich.edu [141.213.4.11]) BY dave.mr.itd.umich.edu ID 44B732FF.3855C.15666 ; 14 Jul 2006 02:00:31 -0400 Received: from boston.eecs.umich.edu (boston.eecs.umich.edu [141.213.4.61]) by newman.eecs.umich.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k6E60R7P018369 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 14 Jul 2006 02:00:27 -0400 Received: from boston.eecs.umich.edu (localhost.eecs.umich.edu [127.0.0.1]) by boston.eecs.umich.edu (8.12.10/8.13.0) with ESMTP id k6E60R6V013011 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 14 Jul 2006 02:00:27 -0400 Received: from localhost (dreeves Æ localhost) by boston.eecs.umich.edu (8.12.10/8.12.9/Submit) with ESMTP id k6E60RnK013007; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 02:00:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: boston.eecs.umich.edu: dreeves owned process doing -bs X-X-Sender: dreeves Æ boston.eecs.umich.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.0-r372567 (2006-01-26) on newman.eecs.umich.edu X-Virus-Scan: : UVSCAN at UoM/EECS X-Virus-Scan: : UVSCAN at UoM/EECS Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 02:00:27 -0400 (EDT) To: improvetheworld Æ umich.edu From: Daniel Reeves Subject: abuse of "pain and suffering"? Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 597 Here are two points of view on whether Bethany should ask for more than just reimbursement for the hospital bill plus cost of her bike. Please chime in with your opinion! It could be very influential. The ANTI-LITIGATION argument: No, this represents the worst of what's wrong with this country. Don't use elaborate rationalizations for being a greedy opportunist cashing in on misfortune. This kind of lawsuit is an absolutely massive drain on society, both in wasted money and in missed opportunities / paranoia ("sorry, we can't do that for liability reasons"). Don't be a part of it! The JUSTICE argument: Asking for much more than the actual hospital and bike costs is the morally right thing to do. Agreed that abuse of the legal system (or the brokenness of the system itself) is a huge and despicable problem. It would be wrong, for example, to go for punitive damages. But asking the driver to redress your pain and suffering and lost productivity (if not done disingenuously) is absolutely legitimate. As we know from yootles, these have a measurable price. If the driver (bear with the absurd hypotheticalness of this) asked you if he could smash up your face with a nine iron for 10 million dollars, you'd say yes (assume of course ex post analysis, ie, knowing the surgery would succeed, etc). If he offered 10 thousand, you'd say no. (Adjust the spread if I'm presuming wrong.) Somewhere in between is the fair and just amount he should give you. The difference between this and greedy opportunists is a fundamental one. The difference between "you ran a stop sign and smashed my face in with your truck" and "I slipped in your grocery store" is as clear as day. There are a lot of selfish assholes abusing the concept of liability but that doesn't mean you have to err on the other extreme, refusing to hold someone fully liable for life-and-death negligence. Straw Poll here: http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/dreeves/wb/cycling -- http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/dreeves - - search://"Daniel Reeves" If God dwells inside us, like some people say, I sure hope he likes enchiladas, because that's what He's getting! -- Jack Handey