X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,SPF_HELO_PASS autolearn=unavailable version=3.2.0-r372567 Sender: -2.6 (spamval) -- NONE Return-Path: Received: from newman.eecs.umich.edu (newman.eecs.umich.edu [141.213.4.11]) by boston.eecs.umich.edu (8.12.10/8.13.0) with ESMTP id k5TLQP6V026159 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:26:26 -0400 Received: from galaxyquest.mr.itd.umich.edu (galaxyquest.mr.itd.umich.edu [141.211.93.145]) by newman.eecs.umich.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k5TLQMp6032561 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:26:24 -0400 Received: FROM newman.eecs.umich.edu (newman.eecs.umich.edu [141.213.4.11]) BY galaxyquest.mr.itd.umich.edu ID 44A4457C.5FF.16337 ; 29 Jun 2006 17:26:20 -0400 Received: from boston.eecs.umich.edu (boston.eecs.umich.edu [141.213.4.61]) by newman.eecs.umich.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k5TLQH43032530 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:26:17 -0400 Received: from boston.eecs.umich.edu (localhost.eecs.umich.edu [127.0.0.1]) by boston.eecs.umich.edu (8.12.10/8.13.0) with ESMTP id k5TLQG6V026153 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:26:17 -0400 Received: from localhost (dreeves Æ localhost) by boston.eecs.umich.edu (8.12.10/8.12.9/Submit) with ESMTP id k5TLQGE6026150; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:26:16 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: boston.eecs.umich.edu: dreeves owned process doing -bs X-X-Sender: dreeves Æ boston.eecs.umich.edu In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <5ed707a10606290535j63b54c19ocf9930d31a21f65d Æ mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.0-r372567 (2006-01-26) on newman.eecs.umich.edu X-Virus-Scan: : UVSCAN at UoM/EECS X-Virus-Scan: : UVSCAN at UoM/EECS Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:26:16 -0400 (EDT) To: improvetheworld Æ umich.edu cc: Michael Schwarz , David Pennock , Yiling Chen , Daniel Reeves , yootopia-discuss Æ yahoo-inc.com From: Daniel Reeves Subject: Re: Fairer Favors Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 523 I'm getting responses offline indicating mass misunderstanding of Bethany's yootles mechanism. I encourage you all to spam the group (reply-all) since it's really no problem for people to just ignore/delete the whole thread (as long as you don't change the subject line). The main question is "what good is a yootle?" The answer is, as established by precedent, about a fiftieth of a ride to the airport. Yootles are not meant to be exchanged for money. Nonetheless, if you acquire yootles you will, in a real sense, get positive utility out of them. In fact, I personally guarantee it. If you can't find anything else to do with them I will give you cash for them. Seriously, they're very useful to me for things like influencing family decisions or getting out of doing the dishes. Or getting out of tasks my boss assigns (I kid you not -- ask him; he's cc'd). Which perhaps means I shouldn't be allowed to buy yootles -- that question is still under debate. The whole yootles thing is still brand new. It would be great to get input from you all. The other question about Bethany's airport auction people are asking is, why are people who aren't even in Michigan bidding thousands of yootles? Yes, it would be very dumb for me to fly to Detroit to take Bethany to the airport to fly to New York to visit me. But my bid just reflects that if for some crazy hypothetical reason she needed one of us to drive her at any cost, that's roughly what the cost to me would be. The auction mechanism now uses that information to decide that, yes, it would be dumb for Danny to do it! And, as you can see, I'm fortunately losing the auction. One anonymous person (ok, fine, my grandfather) has opined that this is an awful idea and that people should arrange exchanges of favors with no explicit tracking system. The yootles system, he says, undermines the spirit of magnanimity in favor-giving and fairness in decision-making and is bad for society. How's that for a gauntlet throwdown? Let's hear some side-taking... Danny --- \/ FROM Daniel Reeves AT 06.06.29 12:13 (Today) \/ --- > Oh, wow, airport rides are a great example. I've more than once wished I > could respond along these lines: > "I could but it's at a bad time. But I'd rather take you than leave > you high and dry. So, um, could I just pay for your cab?" > But of course that's not an option. > > So, yes, we're making far from socially optimal decisions about rides to the > airport. Bethany's idea to auction off the favor is a really good one! > > If you could humor us and put in a bid even if you can't realistically do it, > that would really help get a feel for how this system might work. > Like I put in Y$2000 estimating that's how much it would cost to get a last > minute flight to detroit, rent a car, and drive Bethany to the airport. > > Ooh, and let me sweeten the deal: if you take Bethany to the airport you can > use her car while she's gone. It's technically still my car, so I can say > that. :) > > Danny > > --- \/ FROM bethany soule AT 06.06.29 08:35 (Today) \/ --- > >> Inasmuch as fairer favor tracking and better group decision making >> improve the world, I'd like to open this up for discussion: Can >> people make better decisions when they can explicitly compare their >> utilities for the different options? >> >> Or, more specifically, can I identify from among my friends, who would >> least mind taking me to the airport tomorrow? Let's find out: >> >> http://www.editgrid.com/user/bsoule/taxi-cab >> Or the view-only version since the above is browser-picky: >> http://www.editgrid.com/user/bsoule/taxi-cab.html >> >> (Getting 50 yootles should be plenty to get your own ride to the >> airport from me or others later. More at yootles.com.) >> >> Bethany >> > > -- http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/dreeves - - search://"Daniel Reeves" "Life may have no meaning -- or even worse, it may have a meaning of which I disapprove."