X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=unavailable version=3.2.0-r372567 Sender: -1.0 (spamval) -- NONE Return-Path: Received: from newman.eecs.umich.edu (newman.eecs.umich.edu [141.213.4.11]) by boston.eecs.umich.edu (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k224tLUV010493 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 23:55:21 -0500 Received: from workinggirl.mr.itd.umich.edu (workinggirl.mr.itd.umich.edu [141.211.93.143]) by newman.eecs.umich.edu (8.13.2/8.13.0) with ESMTP id k224tJAn017280 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 23:55:20 -0500 Received: FROM rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.152]) BY workinggirl.mr.itd.umich.edu ID 44067AB4.59FCA.435 ; 1 Mar 2006 23:55:16 -0500 Received: from wayne.edu (c-68-40-104-36.hsd1.mi.comcast.net[68.40.104.36]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <20060302045515m12001dt1de>; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 04:55:15 +0000 Message-ID: <44067AB6.ED3DF500 Æ wayne.edu> Organization: Wayne State University X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <44056A33020000E30001164E Æ SCRNCS1.scrippscollege.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.0-r372567 (2006-01-26) on newman.eecs.umich.edu X-Virus-Scan: : UVSCAN at UoM/EECS Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 23:55:18 -0500 To: Daniel Reeves CC: improvetheworld Æ umich.edu, Eva Revesz From: Andrew Reeves Subject: Re: boo to Austria (free speech again) Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 405 After the feminism flap I resolved not to get into a new argument with the younger generation, but this is an exception--you are not likely to get the view of another actual eyewitness and former victim. I shall comment only on the conflicting views of my daughter Trixie (who is in favor of restricting free speech in this particular instance) and grandson Danny (who is firmly in favor of free speech under all circumstances). First, let me rectify some misconceptions. To say that David Irving is "an asshole with a doctor title" is a half-truth. He has no doctor's degree or according to Wikipedia no finished university education of any sort, and certainly no professorship anywhere. He has achieved some note after writing (otherwise very poorly researched) historical works about World War II in which he exonerated Hitler, blamed the Western allies especially Churchill for ethical misconduct, railed against the Jews for exaggerating and lately for altogether inventing the Holocaust. He has been a notorious gadfly in his native Britain where he initiated dozens of lawsuits for libel against all who criticized him (who include my historian friend and former fellow slave laborer John Lukacs). Of course, he had fans too, especially among those who delighted in reading that the atrocities of which they were accused did not really happen. Everybody knows the argument that free speech must not include falsely screaming "fire!" in a crowded theatre. In some ways the reasons why Austria (and Germany too, many years ago) enacted their anti-free-speech laws was similar, and not a wanton curtailment of citizens' rights with some ulterior motive. It was the recognition of an absolute moral imperative and a last-ditch effort to salvage what was still salvageable of the national honor of the German-speaking nations. There was only one Hitler, but there were hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of low-echelon scoundrels who actually carried out the job or stood on the sidelines, cheering. To these people, David Irving is/was exactly "what the doctor ordered" in order to carry their heads higher, reassure themselves that what they did was right after all, and even to boast to their children and grandchildren that the last word against Jewish subversion of the world has not been spoken yet. I do not have to point out the perils of such an indoctrination for the coming generations, especially when the Israeli/Palestinian problem gives enough headaches to everybody even without such insidious undercurrent. So, I am afraid that for now I will have to side with Trixie in this debate. The time will come when this will become unnecessary. In the first decades of the last century there was a movement in Eastern Europe denying that Napoleon Bonaparte ever lived; his person and his exploits were simply the inventions of French chauvinists. Even in our own day, there is another historical gadfly (Heribert Illig) who claims that Charlemagne never lived and the whole early middle ages are pure invention. Of course we just laugh at these assertions today and tomorrow we shall laugh at Holocaust-deniers also. In the meantime, I trust that thoughtful people will see that that tomorrow is not with us yet and for the present we must accept some curtailment of free speech for the greater good. --Danny's Grandpa Andrew