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Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 12:29:07 -0600 (CST)
To: Daniel Reeves <dreeves &AElig umich.edu>
Cc: improvetheworld &AElig umich.edu, Eva Revesz <erevesz &AElig ScrippsCollege.edu>
From: Bill Rand <wrand &AElig northwestern.edu>
Subject: Re: boo to Austria (free speech again)
Status: O

	Something that maybe relevant to this discussiong is the recent 
statement by a Prof. Butz here at Northwestern University when he stated 
that he supported the Iranian President's statement that the Holocaust was 
a hoax.  In the end since Prof. Butz has tenure and did not violate any of 
the conditions of his contract he was allowed to remain at Northwestern.  
However he was strongly condemned both in the media, and in person.  I 
personally think that moral censure by society in these cases is a more 
appropriate course of action.  In other words the state should not take 
action but those who have an equal "position of authority" should condemn 
members of their group who blatantly distort history (small aside: Butz 
is actually a professor of electrical engineering, not history).  Social 
action is more powerful and long-lasting than governmental action 
anyway.  I guess in this way I agree with Danny.  Lengthy documentation 
following, consume at your own discretion.  
Take care,
Bill

Here is the original statement from Prof. Butz:

http://pubweb.northwestern.edu/~abutz/dnews/Ahmadinejad.htm

Here is the President of Northwestern's response to Butz's statement:

http://www.northwestern.edu/newscenter/stories/2006/02/bienen.html

Probably the harshed condemnation of all came from Butz's own department.  
This letter was also sent to the Tribune and several other locations with 
only the signatures of Uri Wilensky, Larry Birnbaum, and Allen Taflove 
(full disclosure: Uri Wilensky is my supervisor):

http://pubweb.northwestern.edu/~taflove/

On Wed, 1 Mar 2006, Daniel Reeves wrote:

> I disagree strongly with Trixie's take below.  The principle of free 
> speech is more important.  Just because it was a wise move *in this case* 
> does not mean we want governments to have that kind of control over us.
> 
> This reminds me, again, of fundamentalist Christians in the US who want to 
> remove the separation of church and state because they happen to be the 
> majority.
> 
> The principles of freedom of speech and freedom of religion need to be 
> defended not just when it suits you.  They need to be defended on 
> principle.
> 
> Danny
> 
> --- \/   FROM Eva Revesz AT 06.03.01 09:32 (Today)   \/ ---
> 
> > I disagree, Danny! I think it was just! Can't have people in positions
> > of authority blatantly distorting history like that. That makes it sound
> > like the holocaust is a debatable issue. After all, the guy's a history
> > professor! I applaud the Austrian courts for being so bold to shut this
> > guy  up and for forcing him to recant his atrocious position. This is
> > especially important in coutnries like  Austria, which has long been in
> > a silent mode of denial regarding its collaboration with the Nazis. I
> > thought it was an important and very positive landmark decision. You
> > simply can't have such assholes with doctor titles making holocaust
> > denial sound legitimate. Allowing him to continue his teaching career
> > would have been a miscarriage of justice to me.
> >
> > Feel free to post this on your "Improve the World" list. Curious to see
> > how the others react -- including you.
> > Love,
> > Trixie.
> >
> >
> >
> >>>> Daniel Reeves <dreeves &AElig umich.edu>  >>>
> > thanks Trixie!
> >
> > and, yes, absolutely unjust.  You can't jail people for being stupid,
> > wrong, or even assholes.  You just reminded me to finish sending
> > something
> > on that topic.  did you get it?
> >
> > --- \/   FROM Eva Revesz AT 06.03.01 09:09 (Today)   \/ ---
> >
> >> Danny,
> >> Wow! Your time (4th overall) is really impressive!
> >> Congratuations to you and your entire team!!!!
> >> Love,
> >> Trixie
> >> P.S. Sorry if I came off as dismissive regarding the cartoon issue and
> >> hope you haven't taken me off your  "Improve the World" list. What did
> >> you think about the British prof. who was sentenced to 3 years jail in
> >> Austria for denying the holocaust? Blatant miscarriage of justice
> >> because it so clearly violates freedom of speech?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>>> Daniel Reeves <dreeves &AElig umich.edu>  >>>
> >> A team's top 5 times count for the team competition and Ann Arbor
> >> Ascension won it!  My time wasn't supposed to count for the team since
> > I
> >>
> >> did the elite climb (coming in 4th overall) but my 2nd time up (with
> >> Nate
> >> Binkert's spot) counted.  All our results are below.  Congratulations
> > to
> >>
> >> this year's fastest Ann Arbor female climber, Bethany Soule!  She
> >> trained
> >> hard this year and took close to 3 minutes off her time from last year
> >> and
> >> she was no slouch then. Rebecca Csomos was mere seconds behind her
> > this
> >> year. Next year should be very exciting with Melanie back (she holds
> > the
> >>
> >> Ann Arbor female course record and is having a baby in May!) and Erica
> >> O'Connor (Ann Arbor's top inline skater) and Rebecca and Rachel Rose
> >> (whose record is very close to Melanie's) all potential favorites.
> >>
> >> My dad, per tradition, turned in an impressive time despite injury
> >> (completely torn ACL -- surgery March 8th!).  Maybe it's because it
> > was
> >> his birthday.. :)
> >>
> >> Huge thanks to everyone for racing and fundraising! Hustle up the
> >> Hancock
> >> was obviously an enormous success for us this year.  And this year
> > alone
> >>
> >> we've raised $5464 for the American Lung Association (and counting)!
> >>   http://www.hustle2006.kintera.org/a3
> >>     (donations accepted for I think another a week or so)
> >>
> >>  In other news, if you register for the Athens to Atlanta ultra skate
> >>  marathon by tomorrow, it's only $50 and you have the option of
> >> changing
> >>  your distance (38, 52, 87 miles) up to the day of the event, Oct 1st.
> >>   http://www.a2a.net/
> >>  Bethany and Kapoo and my dad and I are all signing up together now.
> >>  Brian Renaud and others have already signed up.
> >>   Other skating events:
> >>     http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/dreeves/wb/skatecal
> >>
> >>
> >> Ann Arbor Ascension's Hustle up the Hancock 2006 Results:
> >>
> >> Place Name                    Num Ag S City,St      Div/Tot  Time
> >> A3place
> >>     4 Danny Reeves              9 30 M Ann Arbor MI 3/452   10:45   1
> >>    11 Matthew Wolpert         858 29 M Portland OR  3/302   11:33   2
> >>    19 Kevin Lochner           856 28 M Ann Arbor MI 5/302   12:00   3
> >>    21 Kelly Sparks            870 33 M Peoria IL    9/452   12:10   4
> >>    22 Danny Reeves (2)        842 30 M Ann Arbor MI 6/302   12:19
> >>    44 Mike Honnold            854 26 M Peoria IL    10/302  13:13   5
> >>    91 Bill Rand               864 30 M Chicago IL   33/452  14:04   6
> >>   F33 Bethany Soule           869 24 F Ann Arbor MI 11/369  15:32   7
> >> F1
> >>   234 Michael Weis            851                   47/302  15:33   8
> >>   248 Martin Reeves           865 52 M Peoria IL    16/160  15:39   9
> >>   F35 Rebecca Csomos          847 26 F Ann Arbor MI 12/369  15:39  10
> >> F2
> >>   273 Mikey Lerman            840      Dearborn MI  57/302  15:51  11
> >>   420 Kate Lockwood's Friend? 850                   94/302  16:50  12
> >>   460 Danny Reeves (3)        852 30 M Ann Arbor MI         16:59
> >>   476 Mikey Lerman (2)        841      Dearborn MI          17:03
> >>   481 Chris Davis             848 30 M Ann Arbor MI 136/452 17:04  13
> >>   F96 Bethany Soule (2)       845 24 F Ann Arbor MI  33/369 17:09
> >>   522 Dave Morris             862 32 M Ann Arbor MI 147/452 17:15  14
> >>  F119 Rachel Rose             868 23 F Ann Arbor MI  42/369 17:35  15
> >> F3
> >>   602 Chris Kiekintveld       872    M Ann Arbor MI         17:43  16
> >>   612 Mark Carpenter          844 44 M WhiteLake MI 124/360 17:45  17
> >>   681 Brian Healey            849    M                      18:05  18
> >>   867 Ian Moore               861 29 M Ann Arbor MI 163/302 18:57  19
> >>  1162 Kevin Holt              853 29 M Ann Arbor MI 190/302 20:21  20
> >>  F358 Kate Lockwood           857 28 F Ann Arbor MI 128/369 20:35  21
> >> F4
> >>  F443 Chris (Kapoo) Kapusky   855 27 F Ann Arbor MI 162/369 21:45  22
> >> F5
> >>  F515 Rosie McGinnis          860 17 F Ann Arbor MI  16/39  22:31  23
> >> F6
> >>  1696 Steven Reeves           866 20 M Peoria IL    242/302 23:51  24
> >>  F810 Erin Evans              871 17 F Atlanta GA   295/369 27:35  25
> >> F7
> >>  F866 Laurie Reeves           867 50 F Ann Arbor MI  41/58  29:15  26
> >> F8
> >>  F880 Mary Bricklin           843 18 F Ann Arbor MI  31/39  29:40  27
> >> F9
> >>  F882 Monica Christy          846 23 F Peoria IL    320/369 29:43  28
> >> F10
> >>
> >> Who are these people from Ann Arbor but not on Ann Arbor Ascension??
> >>   195 Kneisel Mark           2408 39 M Ann Arbor    MI  66/452
> > 15:15
> >>   437 Douglas Kremer         2134 23 M Ann Arbor    MI  96/302
> > 16:54
> >>       Lisa Scheiman          2409 45 F Ann Arbor    MI  18/227
> > 17:07
> >>       Jill Branam            2872 22 F Ann Arbor    MI  261/36
> > 25:05
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> 
> -- 
> http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/dreeves  - -  search://"Daniel Reeves"
> 
> "Engineers think of their equations as approximating reality.
>   Scientists think of reality as approximating their equations.
>   Mathematicians don't care."
> 
>