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I've had barely enough time between my show and getting sick last week to
just read the onslaught of email regarding this. I have found it interesting
and insightful and somewhat disturbing at times (as apparently many have).
However, I think whenever there is a heated debate on email, we need to
remember not to take things too personally. This medium is very dangerous
because we cannot see the person's reaction whom we rip into and they cannot
see the intent behind our words. With no direct interaction and eye contact ,
it's way to easy to misinterpret these intentions. So Grandpa Andrew (and
everyone else, for that matter), do not take the reaction to your joke
personally - this is a friendly debate over a difficult medium. In person
will be much easier, though it may get just as heated - great idea Rob and
Clare! GA, I hope you reconsider attending the gathering on Saturday - your
presence would be an honor, as always. I wish I could make it, however, I'm
going to Chicago this weekend.
Onward, soldiers of improvement!
Chris Kapoo
On 11/9/05, David Morris, PhD wrote:
>
> Quick reply, as I've been too swamped to keep up with all of these
> emails more than skimming, despite having lots of opinions bubbling
> away in the back of my head. But I personally will come to the support
> of Dr. Reeves Sr's "joke", or at least against any vilification of the
> idea. The concept of no means maybe, maybe means yes, and yes means
> you're not polite, is true for most of society much more recently than
> the 30s, especially outside our liberal bubble of academia, and even
> quite a bit inside of it. Should it be that way? Actually, I kind of
> think so. This concept is but one element of diplomacy, soft pedaling
> what you think and feel, keeping your options open both positive and
> negative, keeping people happy. Civilization works that way. I'd say
> the problem is that it should apply to guys as well. I believe in
> equality of the sexes in regards to power in relationships and
> everywhere. But regardless of the balance of power, romantic
> relationships of all natures are tricky, complicated, potentially very
> painful for everyone involved. It's important and valuable to have a
> variety of tools, including subtle languages verbal and nonverbal to
> negotiate without hurting. I think that the concept that everything can
> be just blatantly stated in it's most simple straightforward terms is
> neive. Some people can handle that, but most people's egos cannot. Yes,
> accurate communication is important, but that doesn't mean we should
> discard social skills. This is extending beyond just this one concept,
> but as one part of it I don't think the original joke is untrue,
> unfair, or necessarily unwise.
>
> Dave
>
> ps- I'd show up Saturday, but won't be back to Ann Arbor until evening.
>
> On Nov 9, 2005, at 11:29 AM, Andrew Reeves wrote:
>
> > Happy Birthday.
> > Thanks but no thanks to the Saturday discussion party invitation.
> > I feel that the debate has reached the point of diminishing returns.
> > I may be foolish but I am not courageous; in fact I am scared stiff of
> > a possible personal assault, judging the tone of some respondents who
> > unhappily include my own daughter.
> > Just a final comment to Danny. It completely escapes me how my poor
> > joke is "deeply mysogynic"; it does not deal with attitudes at all. It
> > deals with semantics, and as such it it depicts pretty accurately the
> > prevailing usage and manners of the 30's. Of course it exaggerates,
> > but that is what makes it a joke.
> > Danny's Grandpa Andrew
> >
> >
> >
> David P. Morris, PhD
> aka thecat Æ umich.edu, aka KB8PWY
> home: 734-995-5525 UofM (2104 SPRL): 734-763-5357 fax: 734-763-5567
> ElectroDynamic Applications Inc.
> phone: (734)786-1434 fax: (734)786-3235
> morris Æ edapplications.com
>
>
--
~ck~
"Why does it matter how you've found something good? Is it not enough that
you found it at all?"
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I've had barely enough time between my show and getting sick last week to
just read the onslaught of email regarding this. I have found it interesting
and insightful and somewhat disturbing at times (as apparently many have).
However, I think whenever there is a heated debate on email , we need to
remember not to take things too personally. This medium is very dangerous
because we cannot see the person's reaction whom we rip into and they cannot
see the intent behind our words. With no direct interaction and eye contact,
it's way to easy to misinterpret these intentions . So Grandpa Andrew (and
everyone else, for that matter), do not take the reaction to your joke
personally - this is a friendly debate over a difficult medium. In person
will be much easier, though it may get just as heated - great idea Rob and
Clare! GA, I hope you reconsider attending the gathering on Saturday - your
presence would be an honor , as always. I wish I could make it, however, I'm
going to Chicago this weekend.
Onward, soldiers of improvement!
Chris Kapoo
On 11/9/05, David Morris, PhD < thecat Æ umich.edu > wrote:
Quick reply, as I've been too swamped to keep up with all of these emails
more than skimming, despite having lots of opinions bubbling
away in the back of my head. But I personally will come to the support of Dr.
Reeves Sr's "joke", or at least against any vilification of the idea. The
concept of no means maybe, maybe means yes, and yes means
you're not polite, is true for most of society much more recently than the
30s, especially outside our liberal bubble of academia, and even quite a bit
inside of it. Should it be that way? Actually, I kind of
think so. This concept is but one element of diplomacy, soft pedaling what you
think and feel, keeping your options open both positive and negative , keeping
people happy. Civilization works that way. I'd say the problem is that it
should apply to guys as well. I believe in
equality of the sexes in regards to power in relationships and everywhere .
But regardless of the balance of power, romantic relationships of all natures
are tricky, complicated, potentially very painful for everyone involved. It's
important and valuable to have a
variety of tools, including subtle languages verbal and nonverbal to negotiate
without hurting. I think that the concept that everything can be just blatantly
stated in it's most simple straightforward terms is
neive. Some people can handle that, but most people's egos cannot. Yes,
accurate communication is important, but that doesn't mean we should discard
social skills. This is extending beyond just this one concept,
but as one part of it I don't think the original joke is untrue, unfair, or
necessarily unwise. Dave ps- I'd show up Saturday, but won 't be back to Ann
Arbor until evening. On Nov 9, 2005, at 11:29 AM, Andrew Reeves wrote:
> Happy Birthday. > Thanks but no thanks to the Saturday discussion
party invitation. > I feel that the debate has reached the point of
diminishing returns. > I may be foolish but I am not courageous; in fact I
am scared stiff of
> a possible personal assault, judging the tone of some respondents who
> unhappily include my own daughter. > ;Just a final comment to
Danny. It completely escapes me how my poor > ; joke is "deeply mysogynic";
it does not deal with attitudes at all. It
> deals with semantics, and as such it it depicts pretty accurately the
> prevailing usage and manners of the 30's. Of course it exaggerates , >
but that is what makes it a joke. > ;Danny's Grandpa Andrew
> > > David P. Morris, PhD aka thecat Æ umich.edu , aka KB8PWY
home: 734-995-5525 ; UofM (2104 SPRL): 734-763-5357 fax: 734-763-5567
ElectroDynamic Applications Inc.
phone: (734)786-1434 fax: (734)786-3235 morris Æ edapplications.com
-- ~ck~ "Why does it matter how you 've found something good? Is it not
enough that you found it at all?"
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