X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.2 Sender: -2.6 (spamval) -- NONE Return-Path: Received: from newman.eecs.umich.edu (IDENT:U2FsdGVkX18kjZnbqhVAOK2JQSnFrxo4m/mOV1WVI/w Æ newman.eecs.umich.edu [141.213.4.11]) by boston.eecs.umich.edu (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j3L3kflj002882 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 23:46:42 -0400 Received: from oilandwater.mr.itd.umich.edu (oilandwater.mr.itd.umich.edu [141.211.93.145]) by newman.eecs.umich.edu (8.13.2/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j3L3cLeX006814; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 23:38:21 -0400 Received: FROM boston.eecs.umich.edu (boston.eecs.umich.edu [141.213.4.61]) BY oilandwater.mr.itd.umich.edu ID 4267220B.7E914.8974 ; 20 Apr 2005 23:46:19 -0400 Received: from boston.eecs.umich.edu (localhost.eecs.umich.edu [127.0.0.1]) by boston.eecs.umich.edu (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j3L3kIlj002870 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 20 Apr 2005 23:46:19 -0400 Received: from localhost (dreeves Æ localhost) by boston.eecs.umich.edu (8.12.10/8.12.9/Submit) with ESMTP id j3L3kI8Y002867; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 23:46:18 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: boston.eecs.umich.edu: dreeves owned process doing -bs X-X-Sender: dreeves Æ boston.eecs.umich.edu In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on newman.eecs.umich.edu X-Virus-Scan: : UVSCAN at UoM/EECS Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 23:46:18 -0400 (EDT) To: Eugene Vorobeychik cc: improvetheworld Æ umich.edu From: Daniel Reeves Subject: Re: catholicism must be crushed Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 145 ok, how bout aside from out-and-out genocidal maniacs. and by the way, even though there are a few superficial doctrinal similarities (re homosexuality and roles of women), i view catholicism and orthodox judaism as night and day different (Eugene's an orthodox jew). for one thing, orthodox judaism doesn't impose its beliefs on others. but proselytization doesn't actually bother me [1]. the real way the catholic church has caused mass human suffering is in the form of hate-mongering (like for the thousand years preceding hitler), suppressing science, and, most tangibly, unconditionally opposing contraception. Danny Footnotes: [1] my response to Bill Rand in December about proselytization: A few years ago I would have agreed with you but I've had a change of heart on the proselytization question. Being an unabashed evangelist for multiple causes myself, I decided it was hypocritical to fault Christians for such. If you really believe that most of the world is going to be tortured in Hell for eternity then there's something wrong with you if you're not trying to save people. So it's the *beliefs* that need attacking, not the proselytizing. (I feel strongly that there are a lot of unhealthy and even socially dangerous behaviors that fundamentalist religious belief leads to, proselytizing being actually one of the more benign.) I'll follow this up sometime this weekend with a diatribe on gay marriage and September 11. Danny --- \/ FROM Yevgeniy Vorobeychik AT 05.04.20 23:05 (Today) \/ --- > > Seriously, is there a greater force of evil in the world than the > > catholic church? > > Hitler, Stalin... I mean, I suppose they meant well... > -- http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/dreeves - - google://"Daniel Reeves" "Life may have no meaning -- or even worse, it may have a meaning of which I disapprove."