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Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:57:43 -0500
To: Martin Reeves <mreeves &AElig cbtmail.com>
Cc: Erin Frey <erinbarin23 &AElig hotmail.com>, dreeves &AElig umich.edu,         improvetheworld &AElig umich.edu
From: Lisa Hsu <lisashoe &AElig gmail.com>
Subject: Re: improving the world
Status: RO

in the days approaching the election, i was really torn between who i
wanted to win.  both campaigns made a lot of promises, and i felt
unsure that kerry could actually deliver, especially considering he
wouldn't have congress behind him.  so i really felt like he would
probably had 100 days to get really on track, fighting tooth and nail
all the way, and the entire country would be expecting a lot to be
worth the change of hands.  and then, inevitably, i was sure the
effort would fall short because the problems W created are greater
than 100 days of effort can fix.

so i thought...if kerry wins, possibly discredited very quickly and
lame-ducked.  if W wins, more of the same and making a bigger mess,
but maybe big enough that he gets a resounding boot in 2008 and
hillary can become president.  it's hard to say what's better.

in terms of winning over the other side, i have made strong efforts
this year to communicate with some people i know who are avid bush
supporters based on 2 issues, gay marriage and abortion.  it's
important when talking to these people to not come across as a liberal
nutcase because then there is no idea exchange.  and you yourself have
to be willing to really listen to what they are saying so you can
better understand (and then defeat!) them, and also so that there is a
real idea exchange.   that means not calling them stupid, that means
not coming across as someone who already assumes you're right and
they're wrong, and that means just gosh darn it, being civil. 
secretly, i boil at their idiocy afterwards sometimes, but the worst
thing to do is call them one to their face.  basic psychology.  and
besides, some of them actually have real basis for what they believe
and it makes sense to try and understand it, even if you disagree.

when michael moore came to speak at michigan, i went to the talk.  i
was raising my hand to ask a question at the end, but i didn't get
called on.  but my question was, "how do you deal with the
fence-sitters who think you are full of it and automatically don't
listen to anything you say?  those are the people that really need to
be reached, how do you suggest we approach those people without being
obnoxious?  we cannot use you as a flag bearer or mouthpiece because
to be honest, you are the last person they want to hear from.  but
they are the ones who most need to hear from us."  i wish he had
called on me.

i think barack obama rocks.  maybe he will be president in my lifetime....

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 11:15:50 -0600, Martin Reeves <mreeves &AElig cbtmail.com> wrote:
>  
>  
> 
> Very good article…I agree with most of it, which actually surprises me,
> considering its source, 'commondreams.org'.  Other stuff I've read from that
> website has angered me and driven me further to the right in the past. 
> Progressive thinkers, which seems to include me now as well, need to learn a
> very important lesson from this election.  What we say and write, stick to
> our bumpers, wear on our t-shirts, etc. needs to be measured and thought
> through.  Are we just communicating with each other and pushing away anyone
> who may be looking at things from a different viewpoint then our own?  
> 
>   
> 
> I did not see 'Fahrenheit 911' but I'm pretty sure it contributed to Bush's
> re-election.  I'm guessing anyone that was on the fence as to who to vote
> for, was pushed firmly in Bush's direction.  I'm guessing all that movie
> did, was to cause someone who was already very anti-Bush to become even more
> anti Bush.  A pro-Bush colleague of mine, who did see the movie, totally
> dismissed it as utter nonsense.  
> 
>   
> 
> A very good teacher of this lesson is our new Senator here in IL, Barack
> Obama.  He is against the war in Iraq, against drilling for oil in ANWR, for
> gay marriage, for stem cell research, etc, however; he always gives the
> impression that he wants to understand the opposing view.  
> 
>   
> 
> Barack Obama and Michael Moore have similar views.  Obama's approach will
> effectively put progressive thinkers in positions of power and effect the
> change we want.  Michael Moore will drive the masses away and reduce
> progressive thinkers to a fringe minority. 
> 
>   
> 
> Of Danny's friends, some use Obama's approach, and some use Moore's
> approach.  
> 
>   
> 
> Martin (Danny's Dad) 
> 
>   
> 
>   
> 
>   
> 
> Martin Reeves 
> 
>   
> 
> CBT Companies Inc. 
> 
> Peoria and Moline, IL 
> 
>   
> 
> www.cbtcompanies.com 
> 
>   
> 
> Direct:       (309) 495-1741 
> 
> Toll Free:  (800) 747-6500 
> 
> Cell:          (309) 453-2007 
> 
> Fax:          (309) 676-6068 
> 
>   
> 
> Email     mreeves &AElig cbtmail.com 
> 
>   
> 
> -----Original Message-----
>  From: Erin Frey [mailto:erinbarin23 &AElig hotmail.com]
>  Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 12:50 PM
>  To: dreeves &AElig umich.edu; improvetheworld &AElig umich.edu
>  Subject: RE: improving the world
> 
>  
> 
>   
> 
>   
> 
> Funny article... 
> 
> http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1103-28.htm 
> 
> >From: Daniel Reeves <dreeves &AElig umich.edu> 
> 
> >To: improvetheworld &AElig umich.edu 
> 
> >Subject: improving the world 
> 
> >Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 18:21:13 -0500 (EST) 
> 
> > 
> 
> >I'm creating a new mailing list for discussion of how to improve the world 
> 
> >(primarily bitching about Bush a while longer till we reach catharsis on 
> 
> >that one).  There are just a few key people on it so far, but I made a web 
> 
> >page to get on or off, if you want to start spreading the word... 
> 
> > 
> 
> >http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/dreeves/improvetheworld 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> >And while I'm at it: 
> 
> > 
> 
> >  What Do You Think? 
> 
> >  The Republican Majority 
> 
> > 
> 
> >Last week, Bush became the first Republican president to be re-elected 
> 
> >with House and Senate majorities since 1924. What do you think? 
> 
> > 
> 
> > "So they still control the House, Senate, and Oval Office? Well, 
> 
> >at least we still have the smug, condescending attitude that cost us the 
> 
> >election in the first place." 
> 
> >  Beverly Banks 
> 
> >  Systems Analyst 
> 
> > 
> 
> > "Our nation may be bitterly divided, but at least our government 
> 
> >can agree on being ultra-conservative." 
> 
> >  Edgar Mendez 
> 
> >  Data Keyer 
> 
> > 
> 
> > "What's so bad about this? Could some Democrat explain it to me in 
> 
> >under an hour, without starting to scream or cry?" 
> 
> >  Sam Howell 
> 
> >  Credit Checker 
> 
> > 
> 
> > "The fact that 48 percent of Americans voted for a boring 
> 
> >placeholder like John Kerry is actually a really good sign for the Left." 
> 
> >  Leo Watts 
> 
> >  Custom Tailor 
> 
> > 
> 
> >----- 
> 
> > 
> 
> >Bush Promises To Unite Nation For Real This Time 
> 
> >  WASHINGTON, DC--A week after winning a narrow victory over Democratic 
> 
> >presidential nominee John Kerry, President Bush promised to "unite the 
> 
> >divided nation, but for real this time." "Just as I pledged in 2000, I 
> 
> >promise to bring the two halves of this nation together--only this time 
> 
> >I'm really gonna do it," Bush said Tuesday. "I'll work hard to put an end 
> 
> >to partisan politics. Seriously, though. This term, I will." Bush then 
> 
> >requested the support of all Americans for his agenda of cutting taxes and 
> 
> >extending America's presence in Iraq. 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> >-- 
> 
> >http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/dreeves  - -  google://"Daniel Reeves" 
> 
> >