X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.2.2 Sender: -2.6 (spamval) -- NONE Return-Path: Received: from newman.eecs.umich.edu (newman.eecs.umich.edu [141.213.4.11]) by boston.eecs.umich.edu (8.12.10/8.13.0) with ESMTP id l8A14Pux002224 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Sun, 9 Sep 2007 21:04:25 -0400 Received: from icestorm.mr.itd.umich.edu (mx.umich.edu [141.211.176.135]) by newman.eecs.umich.edu (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l8A13slj025692 for ; Sun, 9 Sep 2007 21:03:54 -0400 Received: FROM web52503.mail.re2.yahoo.com (web52503.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.48.186]) BY icestorm.mr.itd.umich.edu ID 46E4980F.9426C.25021 ; 9 Sep 2007 21:04:15 -0400 Received: (qmail 1251 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Sep 2007 01:04:15 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=sbcglobal.net; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=UvXxmxL/e2C8AQD34pL/q0K1lldu+5gu3RYDTnnrW20SgZREkMl8OcBCzf5oqID4LgTP0DaSaySGIHIozee+7OCOOyV9vWeKmjPZOKeksBD3OKeTvLsGRUOd0gtGqTksZ9xlS6ptdLZA2EO48XCltyh2xyT32ZjvOYryS3AMz9k=; X-YMail-OSG: AgPWUB8VM1moQTQn6nzPTvr4DiKiOhJ1_On6S7aGOC_D7sdfpPMg1kowTeZ.YiWjsBv88g-- Received: from [206.190.53.10] by web52503.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 09 Sep 2007 18:04:14 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/651.50 YahooMailWebService/0.7.134 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1766097172-1189386254=:1116" Message-ID: <956637.1116.qm Æ web52503.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.2 (2007-07-23) on newman.eecs.umich.edu X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.91.2, clamav-milter version 0.91.2 on newman.eecs.umich.edu X-Virus-Status: Clean Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 18:04:14 -0700 (PDT) To: James W Mickens , Daniel Reeves Cc: improvetheworld Æ umich.edu From: cameron wicklow Subject: Re: mind the gap --0-1766097172-1189386254=:1116 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I drafted most of a note just like Kevin's Friday night, and found that Kev= in had effectively completed it Saturday. Specifically, with the same idea= that I could bring the discussion to some conclusion, though I no longer t= hink that this is possible. However, I think there is still a lot of polit= e, inadvertent straw-manning in these arguments (see Kevin being right agai= n with his note today). James' last lines were the key to my understanding= :=0A =0A"A new unit of wealth may =0Aeventually produce dividends for every= one, but that is not what we're =0Adebating. We're debating whether your we= alth generation can negatively =0Aimpact my wealth generation, and the answ= er is yes."=0A=0A...and I think that these words are entirely consistent wi= th this statement: Generating wealth (producing a good or service) does not= hurt any one. If the new product or service is produced more efficiently = or is more desirable than the other products on the market, it may change t= he conditions that other people had been previously exploiting to create we= alth. But, it does not negatively impact another person's current wealth. = =0A =0AThe future is not guaranteed, and people who work to think about wh= at the world will want tomorrow should be rewarded for helping us all be pr= epared. People who make more desirable goods with less desirable raw mater= ials should also be rewarded for their efficiency. Contributing more goods= or services to society may allow one person to trade their goods for a dis= proportionate amount of gold, green paper, or fancy cars; but it does not n= egate all the goods and services they previously provided.=0A =0AA separate= issue discussed is how unequal access to resources can lead to unfairness = in wealth. This is obvious to all, however, we shouldn't confuse equal res= ources with equal access to resources. Just because the ethanol producers = are taking more corn, doesn't mean that the beef producers didn't have an e= qual opportunity to have purchased that corn to do something less efficient= with it. Now, they'll hopefully have equal opportunity to invest their re= sources in an ethanol distillery. =0A =0AThis is why I believe in equal op= portunity, not equal assets nor equal "ends." This would require a governm= ent that works to ensure equal access to resources (not infinite nor absolu= te access), very high inheritance taxes, low income taxes, low sales tax, f= ree access to a good education for children of all income levels, free acce= ss to trade your goods and services, property tax rates that essentially tu= rn over a corporation's land rights over the lifespan of the average invest= or, etcetera. =0A=0AThanks,=0ACameron --0-1766097172-1189386254=:1116 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=0A
=0A
 I drafted most of&n= bsp;a note just like Kevin's Friday night, and found that Kevin had ef= fectively completed it Saturday.  Specifically, with the same idea tha= t I could bring the discussion to some conclusion, though I no longer think= that this is possible.  However, I think there is still a lot of= polite, inadvertent straw-manning in these arguments (see Kevin being = ;right again with his note today).  James' last lines were the key to = my understanding:
=0A
 
=0A
"A new unit of wealth ma= y
eventually produce dividends for everyone, but that is not what we're=
debating. We're debating whether your wealth generation can negatively=
impact my wealth generation, and the answer is yes."
=0A
&nbs= p;
=0A
...and I think that these words are entirely consisten= t with this statement: Generating wealth (producing a good or service) does= not hurt any one.  If the new product or service is produced more eff= iciently or is more desirable than the other products on the mark= et, it may change the conditions that other people had been previously = ;exploiting to create wealth.  But, it does not negatively impact = ;another person's current wealth. 
=0A
 
=0A<= DIV>The future is not guaranteed, and people who work to think about what t= he world will want tomorrow should be rewarded for helping us all be prepar= ed.  People who make more desirable goods with less desirable raw mate= rials should also be rewarded for their efficiency.  Contributing more= goods or services to society may allow one person to trade their= goods for a disproportionate amount of gold, green paper, or fancy cars; b= ut it does not negate all the goods and services they previously provided.<= /DIV>=0A
 
=0A
A separate issue discussed is how unequal = access to resources can lead to unfairness in wealth.  This is obvious= to all, however, we shouldn't confuse equal resources with equal= access to resources.  Just because the ethanol producers are taking m= ore corn, doesn't mean that the beef producers didn't have an equal opportu= nity to have purchased that corn to do something less efficient with i= t.  Now, they'll hopefully have equal opportunity to invest their= resources in an ethanol distillery.  
=0A
 
= =0A
This is why I believe in equal opportunity, not equal assets n= or equal "ends."  This would require a government that works to e= nsure equal access to resources (not infinite nor absolute access= ), very high inheritance taxes, low income taxes, low sales tax, free = access to a good education for children of all income levels, free access t= o trade your goods and services, property tax rates that essentially turn o= ver a corporation's land rights over the lifespan of the average investor, = etcetera.   
=0A
 
=0A
Thanks,
= =0A
Cameron
--0-1766097172-1189386254=:1116--