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just fyi - the below post originally appeared in a public health-related
listserv i'm on and is in response to the Nina Planck editorial.
and just to clarify for us non-vegans out here who aren't familar w/ the
specifics -- does a vegan diet for a newborn mean no mother's breast milk?
eliminating cow's milk (or other mammal's milk) i understand, but to not
feed an infant breast milk as nature intended seems counter-intuitive to the
"mother earth" stance that often goes hand in hand w/ the vegan/vegetarian
way of life (yes i understand there are exceptions - i'm talking in general
terms though). so i just wanted clarification from vegans in the know (but
i *don't* want to start a debate on whether it's "good" vs. "bad"! :)
Posted by: "Jason Ketola" keto0011 Æ umn.edu
Mon May 21, 2007
12:48 pm (PST) Nina Planck's op-ed "Death by Veganism" ironically fails to
list any
deaths or even instances of ill-health resulting from well-planned vegan
diets.
To a vegan of eight years myself, who's met hundreds of thriving vegan
adults and children, Planck's claims of the inadequacy of the vegan diet
ring patently untrue.
It's worth interrogating Nina Planck's connection to the Weston Price
Foundation, which has a financial interest in disparaging veganism in
favor of "real milk" and the like. Not to mention her interest in
selling a book on that very topic.
Jason
On 5/23/07, Robert Felty wrote:
>
> Kapoo sent a link to an article which I think is worthy of
> improvetheworld discussion. The text of the article and a link to it
> are at the bottom. Here is my 2 cents:
>
> Interesting article, but lacking in one very crucial aspect --
> references.
>
> I have several books on vegan nutrition which address issues of
> Vitamin B12 deficiency and lists way in which it is possible to get
> the required nutrients. Certain types of Omega 3 fatty acids are very
> difficult to get as a vegan. However, one must also keep in mind that
> comparisons between vegetarians and meat-eaters should be made
> comparing average health of vegetarians to average health of meat-
> eaters, and many such studies show vegetarians to be healthier
> overall than omnivores.
>
> I would very highly recommend "Becoming Vegan" by Brenda Davis and
> Vesanto Melina. It has lots of useful nutrition facts, cites many
> studies in highly-regarded journals, and lists all references.
>
> In regards to giving infants soy milk instead of formula, it is well
> known that this is a bad idea, and most soymilks have a warning on
> the package that it should not be used as infant formula. There are
> soy-based formulas though. Here's a link to a page listing a variety
> of different formulas:
> http://www.babycenter.com/refcap/baby/formulafeed/1334669.html
>
> I also read a bit more about Crown Shakur on some other blogs. There
> were many atypical circumstances in the case. The parents were a
> black, vegan couple in Georgia, who gave birth at home, and were
> apparently also quite poor. I do think that they probably made some
> mistakes, but from my cursory knowledge of the case, it does not seem
> that they intentionally killed their baby. I also think it is nearly
> impossible to say "beyond the shadow of a doubt" that had they fed
> their child differently, it would have lived. One of Clare's friend's
> sisters recently lost a child. The child was about 3-4 weeks old, and
> was sleeping on the father's chest. Apparently the father dozed off
> for a bit, and when he awoke, the baby was cold and blue. I can only
> imagine how traumatic this could be, and I cannot imagine having to
> go through a trial after such an event. These parents did have to go
> through some sort of social services thing, but they were not
> punished by law.
>
> The young and old are both very vulnerable, and much more likely to
> die unexpectedly than those in the prime of their lives. Unless there
> is reason to believe that the parents of Crown Shakur really did not
> want children, I do not think that they should be viewed as
> murderers, but rather as parents who just lost a child, and they
> should be consoled instead of jailed. Some of this also boils down to
> philosophy about the penal system. What is the role of punishment in
> the penal system? Is it to deter people from committing further
> crimes? Is it to get revenge on the perpetrators? Is it to protect
> citizens from being harmed by the criminal? In this case, I think it
> is unlikely that the parents of Crown Shakur would harm the child of
> other parents. I also find it hard to believe that they would
> intentionally kill another child of their own. I think the system is
> failing here. These parents should be monitored by social services,
> and if they choose to have other children, should be guided as to how
> to raise a healthy child within the constraints of their beliefs.
>
> One final note: Consider an alternative situation: an infant gets a
> high fever, but is not taken to the hospital or given drugs because
> the parents are Christian Scientists, and do not believe in modern
> medicine. The baby dies. Have these parents committed murder?
>
> Rob
>
> ARTICLE TEXT
> ------------------------------------------
> WHEN Crown Shakur died of starvation, he was 6 weeks old and weighed
> 3.5 pounds. His vegan parents, who fed him mainly soy milk and apple
> juice, were convicted in Atlanta recently of murder, involuntary
> manslaughter and cruelty.
> Skip to next paragraph
> Jacob Magraw-Mickelson
>
> This particular calamity at least the third such conviction of
> vegan parents in four years may be largely due to ignorance. But it
> should prompt frank discussion about nutrition.
>
> I was once a vegan. But well before I became pregnant, I concluded
> that a vegan pregnancy was irresponsible. You cannot create and
> nourish a robust baby merely on foods from plants.
>
> Indigenous cuisines offer clues about what humans, naturally
> omnivorous, need to survive, reproduce and grow: traditional
> vegetarian diets, as in India, invariably include dairy and eggs for
> complete protein, essential fats and vitamins. There are no vegan
> societies for a simple reason: a vegan diet is not adequate in the
> long run.
>
> Protein deficiency is one danger of a vegan diet for babies.
> Nutritionists used to speak of proteins as "first class" (from meat,
> fish, eggs and milk) and "second class" (from plants), but today this
> is considered denigrating to vegetarians.
>
> The fact remains, though, that humans prefer animal proteins and fats
> to cereals and tubers, because they contain all the essential amino
> acids needed for life in the right ratio. This is not true of plant
> proteins, which are inferior in quantity and quality even soy.
>
> A vegan diet may lack vitamin B12, found only in animal foods; usable
> vitamins A and D, found in meat, fish, eggs and butter; and necessary
> minerals like calcium and zinc. When babies are deprived of all these
> nutrients, they will suffer from retarded growth, rickets and nerve
> damage.
>
> Responsible vegan parents know that breast milk is ideal. It contains
> many necessary components, including cholesterol (which babies use to
> make nerve cells) and countless immune and growth factors. When
> breastfeeding isn't possible, soy milk and fruit juice, even in
> seemingly sufficient quantities, are not safe substitutes for a
> quality infant formula.
>
> Yet even a breast-fed baby is at risk. Studies show that vegan breast
> milk lacks enough docosahexaenoic acid, or DHA, the omega-3 fat found
> in fatty fish. It is difficult to overstate the importance of DHA,
> vital as it is for eye and brain development.
>
> A vegan diet is equally dangerous for weaned babies and toddlers, who
> need plenty of protein and calcium. Too often, vegans turn to soy,
> which actually inhibits growth and reduces absorption of protein and
> minerals. That's why health officials in Britain, Canada and other
> countries express caution about soy for babies. (Not here, though
> perhaps because our farm policy is so soy-friendly.)
>
> Historically, diet honored tradition: we ate the foods that our
> mothers, and their mothers, ate. Now, your neighbor or sibling may be
> a meat-eater or vegetarian, may ferment his foods or eat them raw.
> This fragmentation of the American menu reflects admirable diversity
> and tolerance, but food is more important than fashion. Though it's
> not politically correct to say so, all diets are not created equal.
>
> An adult who was well-nourished in utero and in infancy may choose to
> get by on a vegan diet, but babies are built from protein, calcium,
> cholesterol and fish oil. Children fed only plants will not get the
> precious things they need to live and grow.
>
> Nina Planck is the author of "Real Food: What to Eat and Why."
>
>
> On May 22, 2007, at 3:27 PM, Christine Kapusky wrote:
>
> > Interesting...
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: jjk514 Æ gmail.com
> > Date: May 22, 2007 10:56 AM
> > Subject: NYTimes.com: Death by Veganism
> > To: ckapoo Æ gmail.com
> >
> > [image: The New York Times]
> > [image: E-mail
> > This] *This page was sent to you by: * jjk514 Æ gmail.com
> >
> > Message from sender:
> > fyi.
> >
> > * OPINION * | May 21, 2007
> > * Op-Ed Contributor: Death by Veganism
> > > ex=3D1180497600&en=3Df83902b3c8513583&ei=3D5070&emc=3Deta1>
> > *
> > By NINA PLANCK
> > You cannot create and nourish a robust baby merely on foods from
> > plants.
> >
> > [image: Most E-mailed]
> > 1. Op-Ed Contributor: Death by
> > Veganism > ex=3D1180497600&en=3Df83902b3c8513583&ei=3D5070&emc=3Deta1>
> > 2. This Is Your Life (and How You Tell
> > It) > ex=3D1180497600&en=3D12d9da8976db7071&ei=3D5070&emc=3Deta1>
> > 3. Mysteries to Behold in the Dark Down Deep: Seadevils and Species
> > Unknown > ex=3D1180497600&en=3D1f342008210cb27f&ei=3D5070&emc=3Deta1>
> > 4. Books of The Times: Al Gore Speaks of a Nation in
> > Danger > ex=3D1180497600&en=3Db05d19a086e3f485&ei=3D5070&emc=3Deta1>
> > 5. Executive on a Mission: Saving the
> > Planet > ex=3D1180497600&en=3D64e3c95b9e4bc5cc&ei=3D5070&emc=3Deta1>
> >
> > =BB Go to Complete List > type=3D1>
> >
> > Copyright 2007
> > The
> > New York
> > Times Company | Privacy
> > Policy
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > "Life is what happens to you when you're busy making other plans."
> > John
> > Lennon
>
>
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Content-Type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline
just fyi - the below post originally appeared in a public health-related
listserv i m on and is in response to the Nina Planck editorial.
and just to clarify for us non-vegans out here who aren t familar w / the
specifics -- does a vegan diet for a newborn mean no mother s breast milk?
eliminating cow s milk (or other mammal s milk) i understand , but to not feed
an infant breast milk as nature intended seems counter -intuitive to the
"mother earth" stance that often goes hand in hand w/ the vegan/vegetarian way
of life (yes i understand there are exceptions - i m talking in general terms
though). so i just wanted clarification from vegans in the know (but i *don
t* want to start a debate on whether it s "good" vs. "bad"! :)
Posted by: "Jason Ketola" keto0011 Æ umn.edu
Mon May 21, 2007 12:48 pm (PST)
Nina Planck s op-ed "Death by Veganism" ironically fails to list any deaths
or even instances of ill-health resulting from well -planned vegan diets. To
a vegan of eight years myself, who s met hundreds of thriving vegan
adults and children, Planck s claims of the inadequacy of the vegan diet
ring patently untrue. It s worth interrogating Nina Planck s connection to
the Weston Price Foundation, which has a financial interest in disparaging
veganism in
favor of "real milk" and the like. Not to mention her interest in selling a
book on that very topic. Jason
On 5/23/07, Robert Felty < robfelty Æ gmail.com
> wrote:
Kapoo sent a link to an article which I think is worthy of improvetheworld
discussion. The text of the article and a link to it
are at the bottom. Here is my 2 cents: Interesting article, but lacking in
one very crucial aspect -- references. I have several books on vegan
nutrition which address issues of Vitamin B12 deficiency and lists way in
which it is possible to get
the required nutrients. Certain types of Omega 3 fatty acids are very
difficult to get as a vegan. However, one must also keep in mind that
comparisons between vegetarians and meat-eaters should be made comparing
average health of vegetarians to average health of meat-
eaters, and many such studies show vegetarians to be healthier overall than
omnivores. I would very highly recommend "Becoming Vegan " by Brenda Davis
and Vesanto Melina. It has lots of useful nutrition facts, cites many
studies in highly-regarded journals, and lists all references. In regards to
giving infants soy milk instead of formula, it is well known that this is a
bad idea, and most soymilks have a warning on the package that it should not
be used as infant formula. There are
soy-based formulas though. Here s a link to a page listing a variety of
different formulas:
http://www.babycenter.com/refcap/baby/formulafeed/1334669.html I also read
a bit more about Crown Shakur on some other blogs. There were many atypical
circumstances in the case. The parents were a black, vegan couple in Georgia,
who gave birth at home, and were
apparently also quite poor. I do think that they probably made some mistakes,
but from my cursory knowledge of the case, it does not seem that they
intentionally killed their baby. I also think it is nearly
impossible to say "beyond the shadow of a doubt" that had they fed their
child differently, it would have lived. One of Clare s friend s sisters
recently lost a child. The child was about 3-4 weeks old , and
was sleeping on the father s chest. Apparently the father dozed off for a
bit, and when he awoke, the baby was cold and blue. I can only imagine how
traumatic this could be, and I cannot imagine having to
go through a trial after such an event. These parents did have to go through
some sort of social services thing, but they were not punished by law . The
young and old are both very vulnerable, and much more likely to
die unexpectedly than those in the prime of their lives. Unless there is
reason to believe that the parents of Crown Shakur really did not want
children, I do not think that they should be viewed as murderers, but rather
as parents who just lost a child, and they
should be consoled instead of jailed. Some of this also boils down to
philosophy about the penal system. What is the role of punishment in the
penal system? Is it to deter people from committing further crimes? Is it to
get revenge on the perpetrators? Is it to protect
citizens from being harmed by the criminal? In this case, I think it is
unlikely that the parents of Crown Shakur would harm the child of other
parents. I also find it hard to believe that they would intentionally kill
another child of their own. I think the system is
failing here. These parents should be monitored by social services, and if
they choose to have other children, should be guided as to how to raise a
healthy child within the constraints of their beliefs.
One final note: Consider an alternative situation: an infant gets a high
fever, but is not taken to the hospital or given drugs because the parents are
Christian Scientists, and do not believe in modern medicine. The baby dies.
Have these parents committed murder?
Rob ARTICLE TEXT ---------------------------------------- -- WHEN Crown
Shakur died of starvation, he was 6 weeks old and weighed 3.5 pounds. His vegan
parents, who fed him mainly soy milk and apple
juice, were convicted in Atlanta recently of murder, involuntary manslaughter
and cruelty. Skip to next paragraph Jacob Magraw-Mickelson This particular
calamity at least the third such conviction of
vegan parents in four years may be largely due to ignorance. But it should
prompt frank discussion about nutrition. I was once a vegan . But well before
I became pregnant, I concluded that a vegan pregnancy was irresponsible. You
cannot create and
nourish a robust baby merely on foods from plants. Indigenous cuisines offer
clues about what humans, naturally omnivorous, need to survive , reproduce and
grow: traditional vegetarian diets, as in India, invariably include dairy and
eggs for
complete protein, essential fats and vitamins. There are no vegan societies
for a simple reason: a vegan diet is not adequate in the long run . Protein
deficiency is one danger of a vegan diet for babies.
Nutritionists used to speak of proteins as "first class" (from meat, fish,
eggs and milk) and "second class" (from plants), but today this is considered
denigrating to vegetarians. The fact remains, though, that humans prefer
animal proteins and fats
to cereals and tubers, because they contain all the essential amino acids
needed for life in the right ratio. This is not true of plant proteins , which
are inferior in quantity and quality even soy. A vegan diet may lack
vitamin B12, found only in animal foods; usable
vitamins A and D, found in meat, fish, eggs and butter; and necessary minerals
like calcium and zinc. When babies are deprived of all these nutrients, they
will suffer from retarded growth, rickets and nerve
damage. Responsible vegan parents know that breast milk is ideal. It contains
many necessary components, including cholesterol (which babies use to make
nerve cells) and countless immune and growth factors. When
breastfeeding isn t possible, soy milk and fruit juice, even in seemingly
sufficient quantities, are not safe substitutes for a quality infant formula.
Yet even a breast-fed baby is at risk. Studies show that vegan breast
milk lacks enough docosahexaenoic acid, or DHA, the omega-3 fat found in fatty
fish. It is difficult to overstate the importance of DHA, vital as it is for
eye and brain development. A vegan diet is equally dangerous for weaned
babies and toddlers, who
need plenty of protein and calcium. Too often, vegans turn to soy, which
actually inhibits growth and reduces absorption of protein and minerals . That
s why health officials in Britain, Canada and other
countries express caution about soy for babies. (Not here, though perhaps
because our farm policy is so soy-friendly.) Historically, diet honored
tradition: we ate the foods that our mothers, and their mothers , ate. Now,
your neighbor or sibling may be
a meat-eater or vegetarian, may ferment his foods or eat them raw. This
fragmentation of the American menu reflects admirable diversity and tolerance ,
but food is more important than fashion. Though it s
not politically correct to say so, all diets are not created equal. An adult
who was well-nourished in utero and in infancy may choose to get by on a vegan
diet, but babies are built from protein, calcium, cholesterol and fish oil.
Children fed only plants will not get the
precious things they need to live and grow. Nina Planck is the author of
"Real Food: What to Eat and Why." On May 22, 07, at 3:27 PM, Christine
Kapusky wrote: > Interesting...
> > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: jjk514 Æ
gmail.com <
jjk514 Æ gmail.com > > Date: May 22, 2007 10:56 AM > Subject :
NYTimes.com: Death by Veganism > To:
ckapoo Æ gmail.com > > ; [image: The New York Times]
< http://www.nytimes.com/ > > [image: E-mail
> This] *This page was sent to you by: * jjk514 Æ gmail.com
> > Message from sender: > fyi.
> > * OPINION * | May 21, 2007 > * Op-Ed Contributor : Death by
Veganism > <
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/21/opinion/21planck.html ? > ex=3D1
0497600&en=3Df83902b3c8513583&ei=3D5070&emc=3Deta1> > ; *
> By NINA PLANCK > You cannot create and nourish a robust baby merely on
foods from
> plants. > > [image: Most E-mailed] > 1. Op-Ed Contributor :
Death by > Veganism<
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/21/opinion/21planck.html ? > ex=3D1
0497600&en=3Df83902b3c8513583&ei=3D5070&emc=3Deta1> > ; 2.
This Is Your Life (and How You Tell > It)<
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/22/health/psychology/22narr.html ? > ;
ex=3D1180497600&en=3D12d9da8976db7071&ei=3D5070&emc=3Deta1> ;
> 3. Mysteries to Behold in the Dark Down Deep: Seadevils and Species
> Unknown< http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/22/science/22deep.html ? >
ex =3D1180497600&en=3D1f342008210cb27f&ei=3D5070&emc=3Deta1>
> 4. Books of The Times: Al Gore Speaks of a Nation in > Danger <
http:/ /www.nytimes.com/2007/05/22/books/22kaku.html
? > ex=3D1180497600&en=3Db05d19a086e3f485&ei=3D5070&emc
=3Deta1> > 5. Executive on a Mission: Saving the > Planet< ;
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/22/science/earth/22ander.html ? > ex
=3D1180497600&en=3D64e3c95b9e4bc5cc&ei=3D5070&emc=3Deta1> >
> =BB Go to Complete List <
http://www.nytimes.com/gst/mostemailed.html ? > type=3D1> > ; >
Copyright 2007 > <
http://www.nytimes.com/ref/membercenter/help/copyright.html > The > New
York > Times Company < http ://www.nytco.com/
> | Privacy > Policy< http://www.nytimes.com/ref/membercenter/help
/privacy.html
> > > > > -- > "Life is what happens to you when you re
busy making other plans." > John > ; Lennon
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|
