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Edited. I can't keep up with this discussion to comment right now, but I
think it's valuable.
On 8/1/06, Robert Felty wrote:
>
> Did anyone notice the glaring typo in the subject line?
> Rob
>
> On Jul 31, 2006, at 5:38 PM, Daniel Reeves wrote:
>
> > Thanks Eugene. This topic in general is certainly worth a thread
> > and if this is a controversial way to start one, all the better.
> >
> > Yes, the perspective below is biased but I believe it's true that
> > the Israeli army is not actively targeting civilians. If you have
> > a different opinion, speak up.
> >
> > Here's some perspective from the other side, contributed by Uluc:
> > http://www.fair.org/index.php?page 21
> >
> > I haven't vetted any of this very carefully -- just hoping to get
> > the discussion started.
> >
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: Yevgeniy Vorobeychik
> > Subject: Those Using Babies as Sheilds (fwd)
> >
> > Hey, guys. I am generally averse to spamming people with
> > propaganda. However, I feel it my moral responsibility to
> > disseminate this human story to contrast it with the increasing
> > sense that Israeli army has no compunctions about civilian
> > casualties you may be getting from the media coverage. Do you
> > think this topic in general is worth an improvetheworld thread?
> >
> > Eugene
> >
> > _________
> >
> > Cry to those Using Babies as Sheilds
> > By
> >
> > Naomi Ragen
> >
> > My son is in the army. He is not the type at all, believe
> > me. Quiet, studious, a writer, a lover of Jewish history,
> > Talmud, ethics. He spent two years in a pre-army program in
> > the Galilee called Karmei Chayil. He made many good friends
> > there from all over the country, and now he and all his
> > friends are in the army. One of them I know well. A bit
> > chubby, with payot, and a great laugh. He and my son have
> > become like brothers. While both of them tried out for the
> > elite paratroopers unit, only he made it in. He and his
> > unit are the ones in Lebanon. They were there over a week,
> > fighting under horrific conditions, running out of food and
> > water. Even though the Israeli airforce dropped tons of
> > leaflets warning civilians to flee because they were in
> > terrorist territory and likely to be injured, they still
> > encountered civilians. My son spoke to his friend
> > yesterday,and this is how he described it:
> > "The village looked empty, and then we heard noises coming
> > from one of the houses, so we opened fire. But when we
> > went inside, we found two women and a child huddled in the
> > corner of the room. We were so relieved we hadn't hurt
> > them. We took up base in one of the empty houses. And then
> > all of a sudden, we came under intense fire. Three rockets
> > were fired at the house we were in. Only one managed to
> > destroy a wall, which fell on one of us, covering him in
> > white dust, but otherwise not hurting him. I spent the
> > whole time feeding bullets to my friend who was shooting
> > non-stop. We managed to killed 26 terrorists. Not one of
> > us was hurt. Our commanding officer kept walking around,
> > touching everybody on the shoulder, smiling and encouraging
> > us: "We're are better than they are. Don't worry." It
> > calmed us all down. And really, we were much better then
> > them. They are a lousy army. They only win when they hide
> > behind baby carriages."
> >
> > Please remember this when you hear about the "atrocity" of
> > the Israeli bomb dropped on Kfar Cana, killing many
> > civilians, a place from which Hezbollah has fired hundreds
> > of rockets at Israel. Unlike previous administrations, Mr.
> > Olmert has my respect when he says: "They were warned to
> > leave. It is the responsibility of Hezbollah for firing
> > rockets amidst civilians."
> >
> > Terrorists and their supporters have lost the right to
> > complain about civilian casualties, since all they have done
> > this entire war is target civilians. Every single one of the
> > more than 2,500 rockets launched into Israel, is launched
> > into populated towns filled with women and children. Just
> > today, another suicide belt meant to kill civilians in
> > Israel was detonated harmlessly by our forces in Nablus. So
> > don't cry to me about civilian casualties. Cry to those
> > using your babies and wives and mothers; cry to those who
> > store weapons in mosques, ambulances, hospitals, and private
> > homes. Cry to those launching deadly rockets from the
> > backyards of your kindergartens and schools. Cry to the
> > heartless men who love death, and however many of their
> > troops or civilians die, consider themselves victorious as
> > long as they can keep on firing rockets at our women and
> > children.
> >
> > Save your sympathy for the mothers and sisters and
> > girlfriends of our young soldiers who would rather be
> > sitting in study halls learning Torah, but have no choice
> > but to risk their precious lives full of hope, goodness and
> > endless potential, to wipe out the cancerous terrorist cells
> > that threaten their people and all mankind. Make your
> > choice, and save your tears.
> >
> > That terrorists have been unsuccessful in killing more of
> > our women and children is due to our army, God and prayers,
> > not to any lack of motivation or intention on their part.
> > If you hide behind your baby to shoot at my baby, you are
> > responsible for getting children killed. You and you alone.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -----
> >
> > For more articles,please visit my Web page at: http://
> > www.NaomiRagen.com
> > To subscribe, send a blank message to NaomiRagen-on Æ mail-list.com
> > To unsubscribe, send a blank message to NaomiRagen-off Æ mail-list.com
> > To change your email address, send a message to NaomiRagen-
> > change Æ mail-list.com
> > with your old address in the Subject: line
> > To contact the list owner, send your message to
> > NaomiRagen-list-owner Æ mail-list.com
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe, click on the following web page.
> > http://cgi.mail-list.com/u?ln=naomiragen&nm=mbpevzner Æ yahoo.com
> >
> >
> > This message was launched into cyberspace to mbpevzner Æ yahoo.com
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > __
> > Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures,
> > email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
> >
> >
>
>
--
Fortune cookie gems:
"Creating is the greatest proof of being alive."
"Sometimes the best choice is to choose all options."
~ck~
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Edited. I can't keep up with this discussion to comment right now, but I think
it's valuable. On 8/1/06, Robert Felty <
robfelty Æ umich.edu > wrote: Did anyone notice the glaring typo in
the subject line?
Rob On Jul 31, 2006, at 5:38 PM, Daniel Reeves wrote: > Thanks Eugene.
This topic in general is certainly worth a thread > and if this is a
controversial way to start one, all the better. >
> Yes, the perspective below is biased but I believe it's true that >
the Israeli army is not actively targeting civilians. If you have > a
different opinion, speak up. > > Here's some perspective from the other
side, contributed by Uluc:
> http://www.fair.org/index.php?page 21 > > I haven't vetted any of
this very carefully -- just hoping to get > the discussion started. >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Yevgeniy
Vorobeychik < yvorobey Æ umich.edu > > Subject: Those Using
Babies as Sheilds (fwd) >
> Hey, guys. I am generally averse to spamming people with > propaganda.
However, I feel it my moral responsibility to > disseminate this human story
to contrast it with the increasing > sense that Israeli army has no
compunctions about civilian
> casualties you may be getting from the media coverage. Do you > think
this topic in general is worth an improvetheworld thread? > > Eugene >
> _________ > > Cry to those Using Babies as Sheilds
> By > > Naomi Ragen > > My son is in the army. He is not the
type at all, believe > me. Quiet, studious, a writer, a lover of Jewish
history, > Talmud, ethics. He spent two years in a pre-army program in
> the Galilee called Karmei Chayil. He made many good friends > there
from all over the country, and now he and all his > friends are in the army.
One of them I know well. A bit > chubby, with payot, and a great laugh. He
and my son have
> become like brothers. While both of them tried out for the > elite
paratroopers unit, only he made it in. He and his > unit are the ones in
Lebanon. They were there over a week, > fighting under horrific conditions,
running out of food and
> water. Even though the Israeli airforce dropped tons of > leaflets
warning civilians to flee because they were in > terrorist territory and
likely to be injured, they still > encountered civilians. My son spoke to
his friend
> yesterday,and this is how he described it: > "The village looked
empty, and then we heard noises coming > from one of the houses, so we
opened fire. But when we > went inside, we found two women and a child
huddled in the
> corner of the room. We were so relieved we hadn't hurt > them. We took
up base in one of the empty houses. And then > all of a sudden, we came
under intense fire. Three rockets > were fired at the house we were in. Only
one managed to
> destroy a wall, which fell on one of us, covering him in > white dust,
but otherwise not hurting him. I spent the > whole time feeding bullets to
my friend who was shooting > non-stop. We managed to killed 26 terrorists.
Not one of
> us was hurt. Our commanding officer kept walking around, > touching
everybody on the shoulder, smiling and encouraging > us: "We're are better
than they are. Don't worry." It > calmed us all down. And really, we were
much better then
> them. They are a lousy army. They only win when they hide > behind
baby carriages." > > Please remember this when you hear about the
"atrocity" of > the Israeli bomb dropped on Kfar Cana, killing many
> civilians, a place from which Hezbollah has fired hundreds > of
rockets at Israel. Unlike previous administrations, Mr. > Olmert has my
respect when he says: "They were warned to > leave. It is the responsibility
of Hezbollah for firing
> rockets amidst civilians." > > Terrorists and their supporters have
lost the right to > complain about civilian casualties, since all they have
done > this entire war is target civilians. Every single one of the
> more than 2,500 rockets launched into Israel, is launched > into
populated towns filled with women and children. Just > today, another
suicide belt meant to kill civilians in > Israel was detonated harmlessly by
our forces in Nablus. So
> don't cry to me about civilian casualties. Cry to those > using your
babies and wives and mothers; cry to those who > store weapons in mosques,
ambulances, hospitals, and private > homes. Cry to those launching deadly
rockets from the
> backyards of your kindergartens and schools. Cry to the > heartless
men who love death, and however many of their > troops or civilians die,
consider themselves victorious as > long as they can keep on firing rockets
at our women and
> children. > > Save your sympathy for the mothers and sisters and
> girlfriends of our young soldiers who would rather be > sitting in
study halls learning Torah, but have no choice > but to risk their precious
lives full of hope, goodness and
> endless potential, to wipe out the cancerous terrorist cells > that
threaten their people and all mankind. Make your > choice, and save your
tears. > > That terrorists have been unsuccessful in killing more of
> our women and children is due to our army, God and prayers, > not to
any lack of motivation or intention on their part. > If you hide behind your
baby to shoot at my baby, you are > responsible for getting children killed.
You and you alone.
> > > > >
---------------------------------------------------------------------- >
----- > > For more articles,please visit my Web page at: http:// >
www.NaomiRagen.com > To subscribe, send a blank message to NaomiRagen-on
Æ mail-list.com > To unsubscribe, send a blank message to
NaomiRagen-off Æ mail-list.com > To change your email address, send a
message to NaomiRagen- > change Æ mail-list.com > with your old
address in the Subject: line
> To contact the list owner, send your message to >
NaomiRagen-list-owner Æ mail-list.com > > > > To unsubscribe,
click on the following web page.
> http://cgi.mail-list.com/u?ln=naomiragen&nm=mbpevzner Æ
yahoo.com > > > This message was launched into cyberspace to
mbpevzner Æ yahoo.com >
______________________________________________________________________ > __
> Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures,
> email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. > > -- Fortune
cookie gems: "Creating is the greatest proof of being alive." "Sometimes the
best choice is to choose all options."
~ck~
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|
