X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,HTML_30_40, HTML_MESSAGE,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Sender: -2.2 (spamval) -- lisashoe Æ gmail.com Return-Path: Received: from newman.eecs.umich.edu (newman.eecs.umich.edu [141.213.4.11]) by boston.eecs.umich.edu (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k152n6ma002921 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 21:49:07 -0500 Received: from ghostbusters.mr.itd.umich.edu (ghostbusters.mr.itd.umich.edu [141.211.93.144]) by newman.eecs.umich.edu (8.13.2/8.13.0) with ESMTP id k152n5dQ013032; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 21:49:05 -0500 Received: FROM wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.201]) BY ghostbusters.mr.itd.umich.edu ID 43E5677F.7BABC.30625 ; 4 Feb 2006 21:48:31 -0500 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i2so1110745wra for ; Sat, 04 Feb 2006 18:48:31 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=HG6dPWMLCWWBeVcsTRISZB+UM93wdtaj7m0aY7cCnYsgHDjztByXJNRxENSRZf1yzA8atkHCpr4Jyz32weEYEg+Wc4DWB6r9j8ZCB1oEWr+IdTZyS4/AGhwtmTl2iJvmtwaWI0MZTm94oPEuEnjBxNw68OAyVqGp93/nBlRAYvA= Received: by 10.64.220.17 with SMTP id s17mr68778qbg; Sat, 04 Feb 2006 18:48:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.232.12 with HTTP; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 18:48:30 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <8d3580670602041848w5496d0a5i1bdfa8d7bcad8717 Æ mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <1b4e77390602041826n60b89c4ydd2e73b89730b51b Æ mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_19951_661937.1139107710974" References: <43E53D0D.4020909 Æ umich.edu> <1b4e77390602041810l1ba3a5f0pde796b2d555ef03d Æ mail.gmail.com> <1b4e77390602041826n60b89c4ydd2e73b89730b51b Æ mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on newman.eecs.umich.edu X-Virus-Scan: : UVSCAN at UoM/EECS Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 21:48:30 -0500 To: Vishal Soni Cc: improvetheworld Æ umich.edu From: Lisa Hsu Subject: Re: view the infamous cartoons, support free speech, buy legos Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 371 ------=_Part_19951_661937.1139107710974 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline i recently wrote to my friend who is a devout muslim and sweet as sweet can be to ask about how he feels about the issue. i have a hard time knowing how i feel because i can't really gauge how offensive it is to have a picture of the prophet mohammed. as chris said, the way i understand it it's blasphemy. blasphemy like using the lord's name in vain? i'm sure it's more than that. blasphemy like a cartoon of jesus masturbating? maybe. the offense is somewhere in that spectrum and probably leaning towards the latter. free speech is a tough thing. there is a line. i'm not sure where it is, but there is. especially for a newspaper. they have a responsibility to be truthful but also not hateful. i can't decide if they were being hateful. or just really really stupid. but certainly, i agree with all that burning embassies is obviously the wrong way to respond, and just further deepens the misunderstanding between the muslim and western worlds. arrrrrrgh. it's frustrating to read about in the news. i'll forward any relevant info from my friend to you guys. On 2/4/06, Vishal Soni wrote: > > This is off topic but of potential interest to this group: How people vie= w > various countries > > http://www.globescan.com/news_archives/bbcpoll06-3.html > I know I know. They only polled about 40,000 or so people so the results > are to be taken with a few grains of salt. Nevertheless, thought provokin= g. > > -V > > On 2/4/06, Vishal Soni wrote: > > > > I found those cartoons to be in extremely poor taste. I agree that from > > a free speech perspective those newspapers can print anything they want= . > > But exercising this right to offend so gravely someone's sensibilities = for > > nothing more than cheap laughs is abusing the right to free speech. > > > > Burning down embassies is no way to respond either. It's ... infantile. > > But I worry that this behavior will, once again, be generalized to all > > Muslims. Just like the people that burnt these emabssies attributed the > > cartoons to all Danes. > > > > -V > > > > On 2/4/06, John Kapusky < jjk514 Æ gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > I don't see the humor, so probably don't get it. Like Seinfeld humor > > > in England, it just doesn't work here. Its a shame that in the world > > > something can get someones ire up some much that they would want to k= ill > > > another person over it or burn down their embassy... Its just a draw= ing! > > > > > > On 2/4/06, Matt Rudary wrote: > > > > > > > > I completely agree with you that newspapers shouldn't be intimidate= d > > > > into not printing this. It's a real shame, though, that the cartoon= s > > > > > > > > aren't terribly clever or funny. This may be the reason that they > > > > haven't been reprinted in US newspapers -- why print something > > > > insulting > > > > to people without making a point? Further, I don't think US > > > > newspapers > > > > have as much to worry about with respect to freedom of the press as > > > > European papers do. It's thus more important to the European papers > > > > to > > > > assert that right. > > > > > > > > Matt > > > > > > > > Daniel Reeves wrote: > > > > > And by the way, I'm completely serious about this. I think this i= s > > > > a way > > > > > that improvetheworld can literally improve the world. > > > > > > > > > > Also, please don't be shy about chiming in on this. Once the > > > > first > > > > > message is sent it's really no more burden for people to delete > > > > the > > > > > whole thread (as long as you leave the subject line intact). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (PS, I can see from the web logs that lots of you have viewed the > > > > > pictures already so don't pretend you're not listening! :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- \/ FROM Daniel Reeves AT 06.02.04 17:03 (Today) \/ --- > > > > > > > > > >> A Danish newspaper recently published cartoons depicting Mohamme= d > > > > and > > > > >> muslims as terrorists. Muslims are up in arms about it. In > > > > fact, > > > > >> they've burnt down the Danish and Norwegian embassies in Syria, > > > > as a > > > > >> start. > > > > >> > > > > >> It's all over the news but no US newspaper has the backbone to > > > > print > > > > >> the cartoons. I guess terrorism works. So this is an opportunit= y > > > > to > > > > >> fight for free speech by helping make sure the agenda of the > > > > radical > > > > >> religious right backfires. And so, improvetheworld brings you: > > > > >> > > > > >> http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/dreeves/itw/mohammed > > > > >> (or google improvetheworld) > > > > >> > > > > >> Oh, and since muslims are calling for boycotts of Danish product= s > > > > in > > > > >> response to those cartoons, you should also buy more Danish > > > > stuff. > > > > >> Like Legos. > > > > >> > > > > >> , > > > > >> Danny > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Regards, > > > > > > John J. Kapusky > > > > > > > ------=_Part_19951_661937.1139107710974 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline i recently wrote to my friend who is a devout muslim and sweet as sweet can be to ask about how he feels about the issue.  i have a hard time knowing how i feel because i can't really gauge how offensive it is to have a picture of the prophet mohammed.  as chris said, the way i understand it it's blasphemy.  blasphemy like using the lord's name in vain?  i'm sure it's more than that.  blasphemy like a cartoon of jesus masturbating?  maybe.  the offense is somewhere in that spectrum and probably leaning towards the latter.  free speech is a tough thing.  there is a line.  i'm not sure where it is, but there is.  especially for a newspaper.  they have a responsibility to be truthful but also not hateful.  i can't decide if they were being hateful.  or just really really stupid.

but certainly, i agree with all that burning embassies is obviously the wrong way to respond, and just further deepens the misunderstanding between the muslim and western worlds.  arrrrrrgh.  it's frustrating to read about in the news.

i'll forward any relevant info from my friend to you guys.

On 2/4/06, Vishal Son= i <soniv Æ umich.edu> wrote:=
This is off topic= but of potential interest to this group: How people view various countries

http:/= /www.globescan.com/news_archives/bbcpoll06-3.html
I know I know. They only polled about 40,000 or so people so the results are to be taken with a few grains of salt. Nevertheless, thought provoking.

-V


On 2/4/06, Vishal S= oni < soniv Æ umich.edu> wrote:
I found those cartoons to be in extremely poor taste. I agree that from a free speech perspective those newspapers can print anything they want.  But exercising this right to offend so gravely someone's sensibilities for nothing more than cheap laughs is abusing the right to free speech.

Burning down embassies is no way to respond either. It's ... infantile. But I worry that this behavior will, once again, be generalized to all Muslims. Just like the people that burnt these emabssies attributed the cartoons to all Danes.

-V


On 2/4/06, John Kapusky < jjk514 Æ gmail.com> wrote:
I don't see the humor, so probably don't get it.  Like Seinfeld humor in England, it just doesn't work here.  Its a shame that in the world something can get someones ire up some much that they would want to kill another person over it or burn down their embassy...  Its just a drawing!


On 2/4/06, M= att Rudary <mrudary Æ umich.edu> wrote:
I completely agre= e with you that newspapers shouldn't be intimidated
into not printing th= is. It's a real shame, though, that the cartoons
aren't terribly clever or funny. This may be the reason that they
ha= ven't been reprinted in US newspapers -- why print something insulting
t= o people without making a point? Further, I don't think US newspapers
have as much to worry about with respect to freedom of the press as
Euro= pean papers do. It's thus more important to the European papers to
asser= t that right.

Matt

Daniel Reeves wrote:
> And by the wa= y, I'm completely serious about this. I think this is a way
> that improvetheworld can literally improve the world.
>
&= gt; Also, please don't be shy about chiming in on this.  Once the= first
> message is sent it's really no more burden for people to del= ete the
> whole thread (as long as you leave the subject line intact).
&g= t;
>
> (PS, I can see from the web logs that lots of you have v= iewed the
> pictures already so don't pretend you're not listening! := )
>
>
> --- \/   FROM Daniel Reeves AT 06.02.04 = 17:03 (Today)   \/ ---
>
>> A Danish newspaper rec= ently published cartoons depicting Mohammed and
>> muslims as terr= orists.  Muslims are up in arms about it.  In fact,
>> they've burnt down the Danish and Norwegian embassies in Syria= , as a
>> start.
>>
>> It's all over the news bu= t no US newspaper has the backbone to print
>> the cartoons. =  I guess terrorism works. So this is an opportunity to
>> fight for free speech by helping make sure the agenda of the r= adical
>> religious right backfires.  And so, improvethe= world brings you:
>>
>>  
http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/dreeves/itw/mohammed
>> &= nbsp;  (or google improvetheworld)
>>
>> Oh, an= d since muslims are calling for boycotts of Danish products in
>> = response to those cartoons, you should also buy more Danish stuff.
>> Like Legos.
>>
>> <ducking>,
>&g= t; Danny
>
>



--
Regards,

John J. Kapusky=20



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