X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Sender: -2.6 (spamval) -- NONE Return-Path: Received: from newman.eecs.umich.edu (newman.eecs.umich.edu [141.213.4.11]) by boston.eecs.umich.edu (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id jA70KrS8027368 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Sun, 6 Nov 2005 19:20:54 -0500 Received: from ghostbusters.mr.itd.umich.edu (ghostbusters.mr.itd.umich.edu [141.211.93.144]) by newman.eecs.umich.edu (8.13.2/8.13.0) with ESMTP id jA70Kq9u026643; Sun, 6 Nov 2005 19:20:52 -0500 Received: FROM smtp.eecs.umich.edu (smtp.eecs.umich.edu [141.213.4.43]) BY ghostbusters.mr.itd.umich.edu ID 436E9DE3.38DC2.13402 ; 6 Nov 2005 19:20:51 -0500 Received: from 0022430339 (v-adsl-fh-241-84.umnet.umich.edu [141.213.241.84] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.eecs.umich.edu (8.13.2/8.13.0) with ESMTP id jA70KZMF018272 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO); Sun, 6 Nov 2005 19:20:37 -0500 Message-ID: <01e801c5e332$b3476e00$54f1d58d Æ 0022430339> References: <572acfa2564.436e36f3 Æ hilltop.bradley.edu> <20051106113840.7lw22esvdw4gs40c Æ web.mail.umich.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on newman.eecs.umich.edu X-Virus-Scan: : UVSCAN at UoM/EECS X-Virus-Scan: : UVSCAN at UoM/EECS Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 19:32:12 -0500 To: , Cc: "Daniel Reeves" , From: "James Mickens" Subject: Re: are you a feminist? Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 292 What is the overarching goal of feminism? In broad strokes, is it trying to prove that women are capable of doing anything a man can do and vice versa? Or is it to prove that women have a somewhat different (yet equally valuable) set of skills that should be cherished for their gender-specific uniqueness? Is the feminist goal some combination of the two? In general terms, are feminists trying to champion "strict equality" or "equivalent value"? For example, Michelle commented that Laurie's use of disclaimers is a subtly gendered method of intellectual self-deprecation. This implies that the "better" way to make a point is to use the stereotypically male voice, i.e., one that is bolder and eschews qualifiers. However, one could argue that the use of qualifiers indicates humbleness and an openness to plurality of opinion. Is the goal of feminism to get women to talk like men? Men to talk like women? To appreciate the inherent value in both modes of speech? The answer is unclear to me. In fact, it's often hard for me to divine the extent to which "feminism" in the abstract accepts or denies the malleability of human behavior and intellect, and the extent to which gendered differences (intrinsic or not) can be judged as good or bad. For example, Michelle asks us to question "the concept of professionalism in society and the values it fosters--individualism, excessive consumption, a hierarchical system of work in which 1 form of intelligence is prioritized--creates a system in which women must fit into traditional patriarchical roles in order to equalize." Presumably, the word "consumption" was modified with "excessive" in a pejorative sense. So, is pejorative consumption a distinctly male trait? Is individualism a distinctly male trait? In positing the existence of one form of intelligence that is overvalued, we implicitly posit the existence of a second, "female" intelligence that is undervalued. But is this female intelligence *intrinsically* linked with the biological condition of being female, or is an artifact of our culture right now in this place and in this time? By saying that women are "forced to fit" into patriarchical roles, we seem to imply that there are essential, inviolable female characteristics that are being shoehorned into essential, inviolable male roles. But such an analysis assumes that men and women are in fact essentially different at their cores. If this is true, then should feminists be pushing for strict equality, or separate but equivalent? Personally, I like Laurie's attitude towards feminism because she directly relates feminism to one's quality of life: "Any mysogyny left lurking in dark corners is of no concern to me as long as I can live my life as I choose, the same way in which any man can." I agree. The goal of feminism should be to make people comfortable with themselves and free to make informed decisions. This is *not* equivalent to the goal of destroying gender as a sociological adjective. From the biological anthropologist perspective, it's unrealistic to think that gendered aesthetics will ever completely go away. It's true that notions of beauty are socially constructed, but just because they're imaginary doesn't mean that people will stop daydreaming. Every society has ideals of attractiveness---this is just a fact of life. Although we cannot hope to destroy ideals of attractiveness, we can strive to make them more inclusive and less self-destructive. One reason that I feel uncomfortable with the term "radical feminist" is that (to me) it implies a social engineering goal which is unattainable, i.e., the abolishment of gendered aesthetics. Once again, I think that the feminism should be formulated in terms of making people comfortable with themselves, not in terms of eradicating all notions of masculinity and femininity. The former is acheivable, the latter is not. I never use the term "feminist" to describe myself, even though (from my perspective at least) I believe in empowering women. Instead of describing myself as a feminist, I describe myself as "reasonable." This seems trite, but I believe that it's a useful way to frame the debate. When we as "feminists" try to explain our goals to the wider public, it's not useful to speak in a vernacular containing phrases such as "radical feminism" or "subversion of the dominant gender paradigm." We will win more converts if we talk in plain terms of fairness and reasonableness. For example, when we discuss gendered differences in the salary received for equivalent jobs, there's no reason to bring up the military-industrial-sexist complex, ossified patterns of systematic discrimation, etc. Here's the deal---simply put, it's not fair for women to recieve less money than a man for the same job. This isn't an issue that belongs to feminist ideology, it's an issue that should concern everyone. So why label it with the name "feminist"? This will simply alienate people who could be our allies. Language is powerful, and the conservatives have been better at semantic framing for years, as described in Lakoff's book "Moral Politics." Think about what used to be called tax "cuts"---the popular term now is tax "relief." Republicans stopped using the word "cut" and starting using "relief" because it's much more difficult to say that one is against "tax relief." But note that in introducing this language of "relief," they've implictly proposed that taxes are a burden, when one could argue that they are really the responsibility of all citizens living in a caring civil society. In terms of moving public opinion, the language that we use to support our ideas is just as important, if not more so, than the quality of the idea itself. Thus, I think that terms like "radical feminist" (or even just "feminist") are unnecessary and somewhat couterproductive, particularly when we can frame traditional feminist issues as generic fairness issues. I realize that there's a time and a place for complex dialectical theories of oppression and what not; I don't discount them out of hand since, as a scientist, I appreciate theories that explain why things are the way they are. I also realize that as intellectuals, we have distaste for the Straussian simplification that is often necessary to shift the opinions of the unwashed masses. Nevertheless, by removing the "radical" from "radical feminist," i.e., by accepting that there will always be notions of gendered aesthetics, I think we get a more realistic framework for improving the lives of women (and men too!). Then, by framing "feminist" issues as "fairness" issues that speak to everyone's sense of decency, I think that we have a better chance of actually improving the world, as opposed to alienating fence-sitters who could be our allies. ~j