Just a few gut reactions to Michelle's comments.  I'm sure mine will seem
simplistic.  I can't keep up with the group's long, erudite, well-researched
comments.  They're very impressive!  And sometimes I simply don't have the time
(or the interest?) to read through all the the attached articles, etc. 
Nevertheless, here goes.  

My reaction to the "problem of mysogyny" is that I am unconcerned with it. 
Don't get me wrong.  Yes, we should do everything possible to equalize
opportunities for men and women, and if that means examining and restructuring
certain institutions in the pursuit of equal opportunity (and let's not forget
that men may deservedly benefit from certain changes in societal structure and
thinking as well) then this should be pursued.	Any mysogyny left lurking in
dark corners is of no concern to me as long as I can live my life as I choose,
the same way in which any man can.  Mysogyny is a male problem, a male issue, a
male loss, and should not be of any concern to women as long as it does not
impinge on their freedoms.  Referring to Michelle's closing comment, "This is a
war not of the law but of the mind," she may be right but I think the more
fruitful way to approach it is to make it a war of law and not of mind.  Women
need not concern themselves with what men think of them.  T
hese are men's demons.	Historically, have men concerned themselves with what
women think of them?  I'd say little.  They've pursued their lives with
confidence, and yes, most everything else on their side too but let's address
the "everything else" and proceed with confidence and less time spent caring
about male attitudes toward women.  

I warned you that my comments might seem simplistic.  I'm probably not looking
at this in the wider spectrum as I should be.  Still, thanks for listening. 
Now feel free to tear me apart.  :)
Laurie (Danny's mom)  

----- Original Message -----
From: Michelle Sternthal  
Date: Sunday, November 6, 2005 5:51 am
Subject: Re: are you a feminist?

> I am a feminist, proud to call myself that.  I would even identify 
> myself as a
> radical feminist.  Not to the extent that I attribute all blame to 
> men 
> or argue
> for a matriarchy, but to the extent that I think merely equalizing 
> pay or
> assuring equal representation in our political and judicial 
> spheres will NOT
> solve the problem of mysogyny.  I think that the very institutions 
> in which we
> live currently foster discriminiation/oppression; a fundamental 
> reexaminationof hidden assumptions and social norms emerging from 
> these institutions is
> neccessary to get to a new place.  What does that mean in reality? 
> Well, for
> example, the concept of professionalism in society and the values 
> it fosters--
> individualism, excessive consumption, a hierarchical system of 
> work in which 1
> form of intelligence is prioritized-- creates a system in which 
> women must fit
> into traditional patriarchical roles in order to equalize.  The 
> notion of
> work/family strain, or the very nuclear family, reflects the 
> remnants of
> traditional patriarchy.  one can think of alternative models of 
> work or 
> kinship
> ((extended family, think of the kibbutz) in which women would not 
> have to face
> this struggle or where other skills would be valued.
> 
> Let's think of gender conceptions, and which institutions 
> encourage 
> these roles.
> From pre-birth, our children are given a gender.  Religion, 
> schools, 
> everywhere
> with a public bathroom, highlight this distinction as one of the 
> most 
> important
> in society.  To equalize the playing field, we must address these 
> institutionsas well and the messages they send....
> 
> In order to "subvert the dominant gender paradigm" (that's for 
> you, 
> Bethany and
> Danny) simply demanding laws to equalize pay will not be enough.  
> The ideology
> behind this inequity must also be addressed.	this is a war not of 
> the law but
> of the mind....
> 
> michelle
> 
> 
> Quoting Daniel Reeves  :
> 
> > Quick show of hands for your basic attitude towards feminism 
> (and 
> > also I'm curious who all is reading along)?
> >
> > http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/dreeves/improvetheworld
> >
> > Don't forget to hit submit on the whiteboard.  If you don't know 
> what 
> > that means, just read the poll at the link above and email me 
> your 
> > (ideally one-word) response.
> >
> > Thanks y'all!
> > Danny
> >
> > -- 
> > http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/dreeves  - -  google://"Daniel 
> Reeves">
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Michelle Sternthal
> Joint Doctoral Program in Sociology & Public Policy
> University of Michigan
> 734-709-6650 (cell)
> mjste Æ umich.edu
> 
> "We, unaccustomed to courage/ exiles from delight/ live coiled in 
> shells of
> loneliness/ until love leaves its high holy temple/ and comes into 
> our sight/
> to liberate us into life."
> --Maya Angelou
> 
> 
>